Examination of Witnesses (Questions 380-385)
24 APRIL 2007
MS IONA
JONES, MR
BOBBY HAIN
AND MR
DAVE RUSHTON
Q380 Chairman: So your enthusiasm
is in the hope that actually STV might play a part in the PSP
in Scotland?
Mr Hain: Yes, and I think, as
I said earlier, we are very well placed to do that. I think we
are outside of the traditional loop of the BBC and Channel 4,
we are a natural destination within Scotland, we play a lead role
in the creative community already and a lot of the programmes
that we make use production teams which will make other forms
of content either for the BBC, for Channel 4 or for the film industry,
so there is a real cluster of creativity which I think this would
be a great benefit to, and that would be the case we would make.
Q381 Chairman: It will not supply
local TV, in your view? That is something that you believe should
be left to the market, as long as the market is given a hand with
spectrum?
Mr Rushton: No, no, I think that
an element of the public service publisher should be allocated
to local TV, and £70 million out of the original £300
million was identified from lost regional television output and
that possibly could contribute to the infrastructure if there
is indeed a cost for spectrum and some of it might be going to
pay for that or to offset it and possibly to support public service
programming in those areas where a commercial service is not able
to be provided because the community is too diffuse and there
is no central commercial player, such as a newspaper or radio
or any other commercial organisation, to supply that content to
the quality that we would all like to see. I have to echo the
point that I think, without at the moment having television as
a way of bringing a sufficient audience together to create either
advertising or public service programming to provide to a large
audience, you are not going to get the content to a quality where
original creation just for broadband would be there, but you do
need the television audience. Particularly, I think, the innovation
of local television which has not been discussed is that communities
of interest across the country do not coincide with the national
map of where everybody is. If we want to talk about Grimsby and
fishing, we might also want to talk about Peterhead and it may
be that a group in Peterhead and a group in Grimsby make a great
programme about fishing on the east coast which otherwise would
never be made and never be seen because the communities that are
interested in that are located across just one part of the country,
so local to local is probably as important as just the individual
local programming in the way of creating a critical mass of production
and developing funding for sponsorship and so on for those programmes
across the country.
Q382 Paul Farrelly: Bobby, Iona described
her rather more collaborative arrangements these days with the
BBC, but in Scotland it is out-and-out competitiveness and it
is right in your face all the time. To what extent in Scotland
is the BBC the elephant in the room and in which respects would
you say it unfairly impedes the commercial sector in a way which
is not to the benefit of the consumer?
Mr Hain: I think that our experience
is that you tend to see the word "plurality" in regulatory
documents and actually in Scotland there is real plurality and
actually that is where it exists; I think that we provide different
services. Actually I do not think there is any animosity between
us at all and I think that there is a very collaborative working
arrangement. We are now neighbours at Pacific Quay and there is
a use of each other's resources, they use our OBs and I hope that
we will use their studios, so actually there is a great deal of
collaboration. The services that we provide are very different
and I think our sense of it is that, were we not such a strong
counterpoint to the BBC in Scotland and if we did not deliver
two regions worth of news, as we have done, and latterly four
sub-regions of news centred on the biggest cities in Scotland
across Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen, then I think it
is questionable to the degree that the BBC would continue to invest
in Scotland. Scotland in BBC terms, for example, is without the
kind of local radio network that the rest of the UK enjoys, particularly
in England, so I think that there is a very different flavour
to the kind of broadcasters that we are. I think in our terms,
and this is where we are hoping that the regulatory framework
will recognise where we exist and the kind of animal that we are,
our most recent experience with the BBC is a disappointing one
because in terms of the WoCC, (the window of creative competition),
as a non-qualifying independent, our production company, because
of its association with STV, has been applying for BBC commissions.
Now, they got past the first post, the commissioner was interested
and then the BBC turned round and said, "Actually this is
a commission which is not going to be WoCC-able". Therefore,
in that sense we are being disadvantaged not because of the quality
of our idea or any suggestion that we would not be able to deliver
on it, but we are being discounted as a producer to the BBC purely
on the basis of our regulatory stance, if you like, and I think
that that is an issue that the BBC has. I think we have said it
in the submission, and I think we still believe, that the way
to fix that is to look at our independent status because, as it
comes directly from our involvement and our closeness to the ITV
network, it is simply assumed that we are part of the ITV network
when in fact we have got no power at the heart of the federal
system to help make commissioning decisions and, therefore, we
get to that rather odd situation with the BBC where we want to
work with them and actually they want to work with us, but there
is this rather artificial regulatory barrier which stops us from
getting on. I think the other thing I would say with reference
to what the BBC does in Scotland, and I think it is a general
point about the degree to which they have invested behind the
online space, I know that there was some disappointment that the
licence fee settlement was not greater than it was, but, when
you live in the commercial world and you are looking at RPI minus
ten as a commercial reality from advertising, it becomes very
difficult to think about how you can be such a counterpoint to
the BBC and deliver online plurality in the way that you manage
to do so within your regulated service.
Q383 Paul Farrelly: So that is an
example of what, you feel, the BBC might actually be doing less
of so as not to crowd you out, but is there an example of what,
more generously, the BBC should be doing more of in Scotland?
Mr Hain: I think that the BBC
really needs to look at its own news and current affairs in terms
of its local delivery, and we heard Mark Thompson earlier on talk
about the degree to which the broadband extension may or may not
happen because of the current settlement. I think that is an area
where the BBC has some catching up to do, if you like, and, although
I would not necessarily blame the BBC for being in the position
they are in, I think it just remains an example where commercially
delivered PSB can match, and we are not alone in doing this, I
know that there are other ITV examples around the country and
particularly in Ulster and elsewhere, but actually from a nation's
point of view what we can do commercially at this point outstrips
and surpasses what the BBC can do and I think that commercially
continuing to make that work is important. It is obviously up
to the BBC whether they decide to go down that road either on
broadband or within their own television service, but as much
as they have a single BBC Scotland identity, I do not think they
are the national broadcaster. I think that absolutely is a name
and a position that we can claim and I think that is why we are
passionate about continuing to deliver it.
Paul Farrelly: Iona, you have described
the dance that you have had over time with the BBC and some of
your hopes for collaboration with them with things such as children's
programming, but you must still feel a bit like Angelina the Ballerina,
sort of the mouse traipsing out of Babar the Elephant really.
I am in tune with youth culture, Chairman!
Chairman: Very impressive!
Q384 Paul Farrelly: Are there areas
which you feel the BBC is doing too much of in Wales and it is
crowding out people which is not to the benefit of the consumer
or the viewer?
Ms Jones: Firstly, I should say
that Angelina is a very good dancer! BBC Wales's contribution
particularly, and obviously we are not an English language broadcaster,
is significant and very important. You alluded earlier on to the
fact that there is a considerable monopoly in newspaper provision
in your area, and the same goes for Wales as a nation, and a strong
BBC and a successful BBC is very important for all of us, but
particularly because of the lack of plurality which our audiences
currently have.
Q385 Paul Farrelly: Are there things
which the BBC should be doing more of in Wales?
Ms Jones: No, it is fine as it
is.
Chairman: I think we are going to have
to call a halt. Can I thank the three of you very much.
|
