Examination of Witnesses (Questions 420-439)
MR GREG
DYKE
8 MAY 2007
Q420 Mr Evans: What do you mean?
Mr Dyke: I think at the time of
Hutton, as I told Lord Hutton, we should have set up an inquiry
and kicked it into the long grass for a long time. I am not sure
I would have changed anything. We did not have many battles with
Government. The battles with Government were largely over Iraq
and I think they were perfectly justified from our perspective.
There are obviously some things which you would do differently.
I was quite lucky, I got there when there was quite a good licence
fee settlement, and there was a bit of money around. I also took
the decision that we should separate a lot of the assets and sell
some of them, so that we could use that money to improve the service
to the public. We sold BBC Technology; they have since sold BBC
Broadcast; all of which I took out and made them as stand-alone
units that you could sell. I think there is more opportunity for
the BBC to do that. It seemed to me if you did not get an inflation-based
licence fee that was the way through the next 10 years; because
broadcast inflation always runs above inflation, I do not know
why, so you had to find a way of getting extra money to get you
through that. There are two things which really drove me: firstly,
this was the beginning of the digital age and we needed to be
in there, and be in there fast. One of my criticisms of ITV is
that they completely failed to do anything for five years. I thought
that meant spending money that we did not have, which we did;
which we were going to pay back by selling off some assets. Secondly,
I thought it was very important that the digital television arena
was not dominated by Sky. I thought actually that was not in anybody's
interests, and certainly not in the BBC's interests and, therefore,
out of that came Freeview when the opportunity came; which said,
"Look, let's have some competition in this. There are a lot
of people our there who don't want pay television, but they do
want more television". When I look back, they are the driving
things: firstly, producing more television, more radio in the
digital world; and, secondly, let us not let Sky dominate the
digital world so that we are all, in the end, beholden to Sky.
Q421 Mr Evans: Do you think that
the channels which are on Freeview should be able to broadcast
in high definition television so that people can get it through
Freeview; there should be spectrum given there?
Mr Dyke: With switchover you are
going to get a fair amount of spectrum. There is going to be an
incredible drive from the Treasury, I suspect, to maximise the
income from that. I think there is a real argument to say of course
some should be; but it is not only HD; I think local television
comes into there as well. Without HD Freeview could be a transitionary
technology and not a long-term technology, which I think would
be a shame. Secondly, I do think there are opportunities for local
television to come out of that as well. I think it is probably
worth making an argument as a Committee for some of the spectrum
to be used for them but, of course, the spectrum is going to be
incredibly valuable.
Q422 Mr Evans: Do you think HD TV
is a premium product and it does not really matter if Sky has
a monopoly of it in the end?
Mr Dyke: No, HD TV will be everyday
television at some stage. All new products are premium to start
with; but there is a tipping point, is there not? There is a tipping
point when people will expect to see movies, sport and drama on
HD.
Q423 Mr Evans: Sky should not have
a monopoly of HD TV?
Mr Dyke: Personally I do not think
so, no. It depends what happens to Sky in the meantime. It depends
whether it is just a platform or if it is also a programme provider,
but that is a different argument. I think Freeview showed a demand;
our expectations were pretty high and it took off faster than
that. It showed that there were a lot of people who wanted more
television but did not necessarily want to pay for it. I think
it would be a shame if some of the spectrum is not available for
HD channels on Freeview.
Q424 Mr Hall: Mr Dyke, you said the
BBC got it right over Iraq, I actually agree with you because
Caroline Thomson, a senior executive, said before the Hutton Report,
"Truth and accuracy are the gold standard of the BBC and
the Gilligan report fell far short of it". I agree with that
statement.
Mr Dyke: "And the [...]",
which?
Q425 Mr Hall: The Gilligan report
fell far short of it.
Mr Dyke: I do not think it did
fall far short of it actually.
Q426 Mr Hall: That is what she said
and she was your senior executive at the time.
Mr Dyke: She worked for us. I
do not remember her saying that.
Q427 Mr Hall: This is a direct quote.
Mr Dyke: You would have to give
me when she said it. If she did, she did not say it when I was
there, that is for sure. A lot of things were said after I had
left.
Q428 Mr Hall: When did you leave?
Did you leave before or after the Hutton Report?
Mr Dyke: I left about the day
the Hutton Report came out.
Q429 Mr Hall: This was before the
Hutton Report actually came out.
Mr Dyke: Look, in all journalism
there are mistakes. Journalism is not a science. If you talk to
Jon Snow, Jon Snow is very interesting talking about the Hutton
Report because he says if any of the journalism he had done in
television over 20 or 30 years had been scrutinised to that level
it would not stand up to that level of scrutiny. There are mistakes,
it is inevitable, but look at the basic theme of what it said.
Q430 Mr Hall: I want to look at the
very specifics of what was said in the Gilligan Report, and why
your senior chief executive said it fell far short of the gold
standards.
Mr Dyke: No, she was not a senior
chief executive; she was the head of government relations, if
I remember rightly.
Q431 Mr Hall: She was a BBC senior
executive.
Mr Dyke: Journalists call everybody
who can talk at the BBC a senior executive if it suits them. I
am not arguing about Caroline; she is a very talented executive.
I am only arguing about Gilligan. She must have said that after
I had gone because she certainly did not say it while I was there.
Q432 Mr Hall: This is before the
Hutton Report, so it is while you were still there.
Mr Dyke: I doubt it.
Q433 Mr Hall: What do you mean you
"doubt it"?
Mr Dyke: I doubt she said it.
I think I might have noticed.
Q434 Mr Hall: "The Gilligan
Report fell short of the truth and accuracy of the gold standard
of the BBC".
Mr Dyke: What date have you got
on that then?
Q435 Mr Hall: I have not got a date
on that, but that is actually what she said. You had actually
said the Gilligan report was alright. Was it?
Mr Dyke: The Gilligan report,
no, there were mistakes in Gilligan's report but overwhelmingly
right, yes. You are the only person I have met in recent years
who does not believe that they sexed up the dossier.
Q436 Mr Hall: This is what the Gilligan
report said, and this is a specific quote—
Mr Dyke: I presume you are a member
of the Labour Party?
Q437 Mr Hall: What you ought to presume
is that I am a Labour Member of Parliament.
Mr Dyke: Yes, I presumed that
because you are here.
Q438 Mr Hall: Then I would be a member
of the Labour Party, would I not? That is just crass on your part,
is it not?
Mr Dyke: No, you are here as an
MP. I am afraid I do not know you, Mr Hall, so I do not know you
are a member of the Labour Party.
Q439 Mr Hall: It is quite obvious
you do not.
Mr Dyke: Yes, that is right.
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