Examination of Witnesses (Questions 212-219)
MR CHRIS
BAKER OBE, REAR
ADMIRAL CHARLES
MONTGOMERY CBE, MAJOR
GENERAL ANDREW
GREGORY, AIR
VICE MARSHAL
SIMON BRYANT
CBE, MAJOR GENERAL
SIMON LALOR
TD AND VICE
ADMIRAL PETER
WILKINSON CVO
22 APRIL 2008
Q212 Chairman: This is a further evidence
session into recruitment and retention. I welcome you to the Committee.
I am sorry that we kept you waiting at the beginning. We have
a large number of witnesses and questions. Each witness should
not feel required to answer every question because that would
take us until breakfast tomorrow, but some of these issues are
directed at the particular specialisations of the witnesses. I
start by asking you to introduce yourselves and to set out very
briefly your roles.
Major General Gregory: I am Andrew
Gregory, Director General Personnel, and I am in charge of both
setting personnel policies and ensuring on behalf of the Commander-in-Chief
the delivery of those policies across the Army.
Vice Admiral Wilkinson: I am Vice
Admiral Peter Wilkinson, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff for Personnel
in the Ministry of Defence. I am charged by CDS and Ministers
to produce sufficient capable and motivated personnel for the
operations required according to the government's policies.
Air Vice Marshal Bryant: I am
Air Vice Marshal Simon Bryant, Chief of Staff Personnel for the
Royal Air Force and also the Air Secretary, so I am concerned
with personnel policy and also human relationships management.
Mr Baker: I am Chris Baker and
I work for Vice Admiral Wilkinson in the Ministry of Defence as
Director General of Service Personnel Policy.
Rear Admiral Montgomery: I am
Charles Montgomery, Chief of Staff Personnel at Fleet and also
Naval Secretary and Deputy Principal Personnel Officer responsible
for strategic personnel policy, that is, the operational as well
as tactical deployment of people.
Major General Lalor: I am Major
General Simon Lalor, senior reservist. I am Assistant Chief of
Defence Staff Reserves and Cadets and am responsible for tri-service
policy for the reserves and cadets in defence.
Q213 Chairman: Let us start with
public perceptions of the Armed Forces which play such an important
part in recruitment and retention. I suggest it is quite important
for the public to have direct contact with the Armed Forces rather
than simply through the media. If that is the case what sort of
initiatives are most successful in providing that real contact
between the public and the Armed Forces?
Vice Admiral Wilkinson: I think
this is a question for each of the Services to deal with. Perhaps
Major General Gregory can start by talking about some of the marketing
and outreach activities that the Army undertakes.
Q214 Chairman: I was hoping that
somebody would explain to me exactly what an outreach activity
was.
Major General Gregory: I will
try. An outreach initiative is one where we take Army personnel
out into the wider community to explain the roles and activities
of the Service. We do it through a number of forums: first, within
schools. Where invited we will visit schools on behalf of careers
advisers not in terms of recruiting but curriculum development
particularly to support their activities on a wider basis. We
visit about 1,000[1]
schools a year and have found that is much welcomed by the schools
themselves. More widely, we have an Army presentation team that
based on invitation goes to forums to talk to a range of people,
particularly gate-keepers and influence-formers, to give them
a better understanding of the Army and its activities.
Vice Admiral Wilkinson: Perhaps
it would be helpful if the Air Force could either expand on that
or make clear any differences.
Air Vice Marshal Bryant: First,
at a lower level like Major General Gregory there is such an ability
with the reserve and cadet forces which I am sure Major General
Lalor will speak to in greater detail, but engagement must be
done at strategic level as well and engagement with opinion-formers
and gate-keepers, ie parents and the people who have influence
above them, are key to assuring success. Some work has been done
to suggest that at the moment this is a negative influence. Clearly,
this is critical if we are looking at the recruiting side to address
that concern.
Chairman: No doubt in the course of the
morning we shall explore engagement with the gate-keepers in more
detail.
Q215 Mr Jones: In terms of opinion-formers
and people in various communities, why do you not contact Members
of Parliament who have extensive contacts with schools in their
own constituencies? On the one occasion I did it with the Royal
Marines it was quite successful, but as a Member of Parliament
I have never had any other service contact. I go regularly to
many of the schools in my area. I am sure that would be quite
welcome in terms of any input I can have in getting you past the
gate-keepers.
Air Vice Marshal Bryant: We are
always trying to do better at everything, but there is a reasonable
level of engagement. First, there is the Armed Forces Parliamentary
Scheme, with which you are obviously well familiar. Second, at
strategic level the heads of service engage on a regular basis
with MPs through information groups. The chief of the Air Force
does this.
Q216 Mr Jones: It is a group of Tory
MPs.
Air Vice Marshal Bryant: But it
is part of the engagement strategy. The other point I make is
that at local level what tends to happens is that one uses one's
platforms or stations as the source of influence. Therefore, their
local engagement will be significant. In the case of the Royal
Air Force that platform runs pretty much throughout the United
Kingdom.
Q217 Mr Jones: I do not have any
Army, RAF or Royal Navy stations in my constituency but there
are large numbers of people who join the Armed Forces. Why do
you not engage with their Members of Parliament who would help
the process?
Vice Admiral Wilkinson: I think
that is a helpful point. Perhaps I may remind the Committee of
the National Recognition Study led by Quentin Davies announced
by the government last November, its objectives being to encourage
greater understanding and appreciation of the Armed Forces by
the nation. Obviously, I cannot anticipate in detail what Mr Davies's
study will say, but from the work done so far I think the points
Mr Jones makes are apposite to those that Mr Davies will pick
up.
Mr Baker: We would be delighted
to engage with you. If you have ideas on this matter the more
the merrier.
Q218 Chairman: I am not aware of
which schools in my constituency accept or invite these visits,
but if I were aware would you like to do more of these visits?
Are you funded to do more? Would it help recruitment if you did
more of these visits?
Rear Admiral Montgomery: We operate
within finite resources and our business is one of making sure
that they are used to best effect. The context here is that we
already do a great deal of engagement with schools, both state
and private. Last year our regional teams visited 4,000 schools
and colleges in the secondary sector and over 300 in the private
sector, so we are already doing a very great deal in terms of
engagement with schools, but this is always on the basis that
schools are prepared to invite us to engage.
Q219 Mr Jones: If you made contact
I and I am sure many Members of Parliament would be more than
willing to see how you could get into schools with which you have
difficulties. In the case of the Royal Marines which went to one
of the schools in my area no thought had been given to having
such a visit. I was quite happy to do that. In MPs you have a
resource. Some would not do it but I think the majority would.
Vice Admiral Wilkinson: To go
back to the original question about outreach, I think it is important
that you hear from Major General Lalor about his work with cadets
and reserves.
1 The figure of 1,000 for the number of Army visits
to schools given during the evidence session was provided in error.
The correct figure is 4,000. Back
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