Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-106)
AIR VICE-MARSHAL
SIMON BOLLOM,
AIR VICE-MARSHAL
STUART BUTLER
AND AIR
VICE-MARSHAL
CHRIS NICKOLS
CBE
6 MAY 2008
Q100 Mr Jenkins: It is not the technological
change of the platform that concerns me, it is the change in the
sensors, the collection, the compression, the processing and transmission
of the data. If we make a quantum leap in the next two years (and
given the amount of money the Americans are throwing at it we
might well do) this may well make our systems, if not redundant,
second class insofar as they are not able to absorb the information
and decode the information fast enough. Have you got a fallback
position for this?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: My view
would be that that will not apply because for example if you take
Predator B it is an adaptable platform, to give you an instance,
and we are just about to put a different sensor into the Predator
B. The payload bay is not fully adaptable but it is pretty adaptable
so you can actually take out what we have got at the moment and
put a new one in. That leads again to regulations that we need
to go through to make sure it is still airworthy and a whole bunch
of things but it is adaptable enough generally to be able to take
different sensor systems. Should that technological leap come
forward we can take one out and put another one in and, again,
the issue there is making sure that you have got things like the
right power supplies and the right capability to lift it; it is
a weight issue. Generally they are pretty flexible, particularly
the larger UAVs, and of course the smaller ones are providing
very simple EO/IR generally, which is the big output from them,
so it is not a major issue. The sensor just gets better and better
and better in terms of clarity but it is not a major change.
Q101 Mr Jenkins: Is there any risk
at all that the encoding and transmission of American systems
will be so advanced that our systems will not be able to pick
up their signal and decode it in the near future?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: No, at
the right-hand end of arc we could actually go through our own
transmission system should we wish to do so, so we can negate
it in that manner, but actually we stay in step with the US all
along this piece, and things like encryption for example are things
where make sure we stay on board and stay on the same lines. There
is a risk from things like jamming, which again we mitigate by
technology and making sure we have got the right cryptographic
feeds in to make sure we can transmit the systems over both their
lines and our own lines so it is not a huge risk.
Q102 Mr Havard: This is going to
come at you a bit left field and I apologise because you might
not be able to answer it. There is a debate about Nimrod and about
the numbers of Nimrod, their longevity, and whether or not there
are going to be the original numbers that were talked about and
so on. Given the speed of these developments in terms of the UAV
technology and all the rest of it, there has to be relationship
between these two things. How is that being factored in? Is it
the case that in your five years ahead that we are going to see
less of the bigger platforms and more of the smaller platforms?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: By pure
coincidence I happen to be a Nimrod pilot so I can answer this
with a fair amount of surety. The Nimrod MRA4 that we are bringing
in service is predominantly an anti-submarine warfare platform.
It will be a significant amount of time before that particular
task can be undertaken by a UAV. That is not to say it cannot
be in the much longer term but certainly in terms of the length
of the Nimrods' in-service time it will be not be possible to
do it by UAV. The other thing worth saying is because it is quite
often confused, the Nimrod MR2 used in the manner in which we
have been using it in Afghanistan has been misemploying an ASW
aeroplane because we have not had something that is as good as
what it is doing in theatre. And it has done a fantastic job,
as I am sure you will acknowledge. As UAVs get better, we are
able to do much of that task with a UAV and clearly it does in
many cases fall into the dull, dirty and dangerous regime and
so we would do it with a UAV, but not in the ASW game. You need
a large aircraft with the sensor array that it does have to complete
the task and I believe that it will be a long time before we will
be able to do that with a UAV.
Q103 Mr Havard: However that segmentation
is becoming clearer?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: Yes to
an extent, but there is an element of the Nimrod MRA4 task that
you can do with UAV and it is all a matter of having this `golf
bag' approach, but the fundamentals of an anti-submarine warfare
role would be difficult with a UAV. Of course because you then
have the platform there will clearly be other ISTAR capability
areas where you will utilise the platform simply because you have
got it and hence it makes it good value for money to do so.
Q104 Chairman: Industrial issues—and
this is the final batch of questions—the Defence Technology
Strategy of a couple of years ago said that the UK is world class
in several aspects of UAS/UAV technology and systems development,
including the areas of sensor payloads and synthetic environment
based operational concept development. Are we still world class
in those areas?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: Yes we
are certainly world class and we lead in some of them indeed,
so, yes, I think we are. We do a good array of sensor technologies
which are utilised around the world in a number of UAVs. We do
well across a number of industry players and there are some capabilities
which we have which are pretty unique. For example we have got
one very high-altitude UAV which is looking to fly somewhere in
the region of 30-odd days once it is fully developed. It is a
technology that has been developed in the UK, so again it is something
that we are leading in.
Q105 Chairman: All of this relies
on the necessary skills being in industry. How is the Ministry
of Defence working with the defence industry in the UK to ensure
that those skills are preserved in industry?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: As I
mentioned earlier, one of the things we are doing at the moment
is a capability investigation into UAVs to make sure that industry
is able to deliver the sort of capability requirements we need
in this area in the future, so it is a two-step process: we are
identifying the sorts of things we will need in UAV terms into
the future; and then work out how best to deliver them through
industry, and of course that will require us to look at industrial
sustainability and how we would take that forward.
Q106 Chairman: What is the timescale
of that study?
Air Vice-Marshal Butler: The investigation
should turn out around about the end of September/early October
and we are consulting widely with industry in taking that forward.
Chairman: Gentlemen, thank you very much
indeed for a very interesting opening session. I think you have
cleared away many of the clouds that were fogging my mind, at
any rate, and I am most grateful; it was very helpful. The session
is closed.
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