RR 08
Memorandum
from the Institute of Career Guidance
The following information has been submitted by members of
the ICG in response to the following questions posted on the ICG website:
- Are young people interested in careers in the Armed Forces?
- Is interest increasing or decreasing? Why?
- Do you have any evidence (including case studies and
anecdotes) that would assist the inquiry in their work?
School
based Career Adviser in SW England
Post 16 school leavers
Last year 2007 - we had 5 or 6 students from year 10 taking
part in Army residential courses as part of work experience. This was similar
to the previous year 2006. This year we have two applicants for work experience
with the RNAS and one for the Army. From last year two are still actively
pursuing army careers and one is considering it. In 2006 3 students
applied to join up - 1or 2 were
Students and their families are increasingly put off by the
Iraq war, as they perceive there to be more danger/risk.
Another hurdle is the number of students listed with asthma
and therefore unable to apply to the armed services due to ill health.
Post 18 school leavers
Slightly more interest this year in university sponsorships
from the Armed Services particularly for medicine/nursing professions - 2
students at present intending to apply although competition is fierce.
A Year 13 student passed the selection interview for the
RAF this year but pulled out after the commitment time increased from 12 to 18
years.
This increase may well be due to high cost of university
qualifications and when students understand the long term commitment and what
the package entails they may not prove so keen.
A group of Careers Advisers in South London
There is a general consensus that, firstly the Armed Forces are less popular
than they were. They think that this stems generally from the "macho"
image, which is presented, especially from the Army, but also from the fact
that schools promote them less because of a generally moral perspective about
conflicts like Iraq or Afghanistan.
In one sense the provision of information is impartial because they are still
invited to Careers Conventions etc but the subjective and indirect message is
much more moralistic, not necessarily from Careers Advisers but from Teachers and
Parents. They are considerably more influential with the average plus because
of the role that Connexions have been asked to play with emphasis on the
hardest to help. It means that the emphasis currently is on staying in
education to the age of 18 or beyond for average and above average clients. All
employers with traditional Apprenticeship approaches to employment and training
are missing out on this not just the Armed Forces.
Careers Adviser in S Wales
I have been a careers adviser in education for seven years in south Wales and
it is my impression that interest in the armed forces has remained pretty
steady - and has perhaps increased slightly in recent years. Some young people
express an interest in year 10/11 but if they stay on to do A levels, the
interest tends to wane.
Many young people enter the forces because they want to be trained in a trade
such as electrical work or motor mechanics and there are very few vacancies
locally. Had they been able to find an apprenticeship, they would not
have applied.
Careers Adviser in Scotland
From
a Scottish Perspective there are may be two key areas to consider.
1. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have brought it
home to young people just how dangerous work in the armed services really can
be.
2. In a Scottish level the decision to merge the
infantry regiments in to one Regiment of Scotland has fundamentally weakened
young people's connection to their local infantry regiment.
Reducing for example the Black Watch with all of its history to the 3rd/
4th/ 5th Royal regiment of Scotland (Black Watch) has taken away the
romance, the local connections and disconnected local people.
I
interviewed a young Canadian man three or four years ago who had come to
Scotland to join the Black Watch as his father and grandfather had all enlisted
in this regiment in years gone by. I doubt if this young man from the
Commonwealth would leave Ontario and his folks to join the 3rd/ 4th
Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland!
The
British Army as has the German army has always encouraged young people to fight
alongside their friends and local people. US army sources have always said this
is strength of the British Army and it is something that the US army has always
envied without being able to reproduce.
If the
Army is able to reconnect with young people in Scotland by encouraging and
celebrating attachment to local regiments it may see a pick up in recruitment.
Careers Adviser working with minority communities in SE England
I can confidently say that young people are more interested in armed forces as career.
Hence, the interest is highly increasing especially in the developed countries. You see some African youths joining armed forces without any body giving any courage or advise.
Careers Adviser in Scotland
In response to your query, I work in a
school in a disadvantaged area of xxxxxxxxxx. I find a fair bit of interest in
joining the Army with pupils I interview. Many have family tradition as a
motive as they have parents or other relatives who have served, or are serving,
in the Army. Many view the Army as an option to break the lack of other
opportunities open to them due to expectations of poor academic qualifications.
There is also an interest due to the Operation Youth Advantage scheme run in
conjunction with the community police based in the school. This involves taking
pupils who have or may be at risk of criminal activity for a week's Army
training course to improve their attitude, confidence, team working skills etc.
Many pupils I interview in relation to Army careers have been involved in this
initiative and enjoyed the experience. The school also encourages participation
in Army days and the Army Careers are always in attendance at parent
information evenings/ careers events in school.
The main drawback for some applying
directly to the Army can be criminality issues and they are encouraged to apply
after completing courses such as Army Preparation under the Get Ready for Work
training schemes for unemployed young people. Quite often young people who have
participated on these programmes are inspired to join various branches of the
Armed Services after completion.
I feel therefore that
interest in Army careers is about the same despite awareness of current
conflicts such as Afghanistan and Iraq and the fact that a young ex- pupil of
the school was recently killed in Iraq
Careers Adviser in Yorkshire
In my experience as a school-based
adviser the armed forces has increased in popularity recently. The interest
seems to across the ability range with more able students favouring the RAF.
The interest is mainly coming from boys although some girls are also showing an
interest.
The reasons for the increase in interest
are difficult to say. Students usually give personal reasons, e.g.
father/brother in the forces etc. I think that the TV advertising has had some
impact and the higher profile of the forces in the Media due to the Iraq/Afghan
conflicts. Having said this I have also come across clients who have dropped
out of the Army recently. One client left because he felt unsuited to Army
life. Another client was discharged after an incident involving drug use.
I think that the Armed forces are
accepting clients who are not ready to cope with the life style. The client who
was discharged for drug use had serious behavioural problems at school and had
spent most of year 11 in special provision for students with emotional and
behavioural problems.
Careers Adviser in the West Midlands.
Q 1 "Are YPs interested in the
Armed Forces"?
Yes. However most Young people (mainly
Lads) want the Army and never think of the other services. Girls often take up
activities while at school with the Army but it never seems to develop in to a
career choice when leaving. Equally the Army is far more proactive by offering
activity days for schools, Work experience places and getting involved in PSE
such as mock interviews etc. The Army update their careers information
each year and staff from the Army Careers regularly give updates to Connexions
staff on what is happening. Simply they are more willing, more proactive and
visionary than the other Armed Services. I have contacted both the Air Force
and the Navy and both where unable to offer placements. Last year for the first
time the Navy contacted me to ask if they could help in PSE by doing mock interviews
for those YPs interested in the Armed Forces. However they offered it too late
in the year and there was no time in the timetable.
Q 2 "Is interest increasing or
decreasing"?
About the same numbers.
Q 3 "Do you have any evidence"
See question one.
Also I have grave concerns that the Army
take YPs who should not be there and the Army recruitment techniques are
questionable. Example there was as recently as 18 months to 2 years ago I had a
YP who was Statemented for having specific Special Needs. The lad should in my
opinion never have been taken on. He had lost 2 jobs because he was unable to
cope with the work but the Army recruited him and he came to see me, proud in
his uniform to tell me he was going to Iraq.
I had another lad last year did the
same. He was not LDD but he was naive, immature in character. He too was going
off to Iraq.
Neither of these lads should have been
allowed to join and there should be a limit on taking YPs with limited ability.
Some sort of test indicating ability to cope and understand what is expected of
them. After all there are enough other Psychometric tests.
Careers Adviser in a military school
Just a quick few thoughts. I work in a military school in xxxxxxxx and there is certainly a healthy interest in the Armed Forces (although I do appreciate these are children of current serving Army Personnel).
Most students appear to have a preference for the RAF. The RAF say they have no recruiting issues at all. Therefore most of our students are not successful with an RAF application. They are visiting our school next month and will be carrying out selection tests for approximately 10 students (this is not for Officer training). It will be interesting to see if any of them pass.
Reasons students are choosing RAF over Army is the perceived/real benefits such as better pay, better accommodation, better status, etc (even their parents are encouraging RAF rather than Army applications). Also the prospect of actually being on a front line at the age of 18/19 is not something young people of today necessarily are in tune with.
The job market is buoyant in the UK and I would suggest that young people have more opportunities to take qualifications and receive higher levels of support by agencies like Connexions etc which enable them to make more informed decisions.
Many of the Army personnel who I work alongside come from geographical areas where there has, in the past, had limited work opportunities, and many parent have left school with few, if any qualifications - which is not the case in 2008.
Perhaps the quality of careers guidance is also opening opportunities to young people who in the past thought they had little option to join the Forces.
Colleges are also offering a range of courses for students who have not enjoyed school and at varying Levels so further education is not just an opportunity for "clever" students.
Some of our students fail application due to lack of fitness, which is a sign of the times it seems.
Also the Army Foundation College limits access to those under the age of 17 (and a few months I think). This means students who want to stay on for a year in school are then too old to apply to the Army Foundation College at Harrogate..... a bit shortsighted in my personal view.
Careers Adviser in a college in the West Midlands
I have the following feedback on Armed
Forces recruitment. I was recently told by a Year 11 student who wants to apply
to the RAF that the RAF Careers
Office nearby had told her she should not apply for a BTEC National in
Public Services at level 3, but to apply for A levels instead. This
surprised me, as it seems contradictory to the government's agenda and to Aim
Higher guidelines?
Careers Adviser in a college in SE England
I work in a busy FE college and can
confirm that for the last 7 years I have never been asked by anyone about
joining the Army, however I have had a handful of enquiries about becoming a
pilot with the RAF. This is despite the fact that the Army visit with
information and DVDs etc which are available in our Learning Resources Centre.
Just for interest I personally have 2
nephews who are soldiers (on different sides of the family) both in their mid
20's and my own son did contemplate joining as an officer when he was 25 but
after one interview did not pursue the application.
Manager of Careers Advisers
in the South of England
I'm now in management and so see far
fewer clients than in previous years. General impressions -
Not what it was when I entered the
profession in 1979. The Falklands gave the public a reality check about the
potential challenges of such employment - a mother actually said to me at that
time when seeing me with a younger child that she ' didn't encourage her
(older) son to join the Royal Navy only to have him go and get killed' (He
didn't in fact get sent to the Falklands).
Until then, service life had been very
attractive to many young people and their parents from across the ability
range. I don't think numbers have recovered since then.
Current hostilities are on the news and
in the newspapers every day. The result is that a lot of parents are refusing
consent for the under 18s. It is not helped by the fact that it is clear that
the kitting out of staff is considered sub-standard by many service personnel
and recent coroners' enquiries have confirmed and publicised this fact.
Careers Adviser in a college in the South of England
As the 14-16 co-ordinator at an FE
college I know that we have considerable interest by students in years 9, 10,
and 11 on the Uniformed Public Services course in joining the Army. The college
offer 15 places a year for Public Services at Key Stage 4 and we have no
problem recruiting to the programme.
Careers Adviser in the West Midlands The level of interest in HM Armed forces of my current Yr11 cohort is very much the same as in previous years, and that is low, but evidence indicates much of this interest evaporates during 6th form (I have almost no students who do not stay on for further education of some sort). Over the last few years I have had more girls showing interest in, applying to and being accepted for Welbeck than boys. The level of interest in the Armed Forces in my 6th forms has stayed much the same as ever. However when interviewed many of them seem oblivious to the UK's commitment to Afghanistan and Iraq and seem very naive about the role of armed troops; most of my 6th form students progress to Higher Education so I cannot comment on their subsequent interest. The Defence Committee might extend their enquiries to Higher Education to elicit attitudes there? Careers Adviser working in a college and with unemployed young people in the SW.Yes, young people are still interested in the armed forces. The more able are often looking for the opportunities for careers development. The less academic want good training e.g. construction and engineering or housing. Girls are more likely to see it as some thing for them once they have got past the influence of half their peers wanting to do beauty and hairdressing!I believe that interest in the armed forces is decreasing. I feel that fewer young people are asking about military careers. This is mainly due to the wars in the Middle East and negative media coverage of military personnel in the media. Parents are defiantly less keen on their children joining the military especially the 16 -17 year olds.Some examples: A 16-year-old girl doing catering at FE College. Wants to join army as chef- her mother thinks she is perfectly suited to army life and would thrive. But her parents are not keen for her to join up. They wanted her to join the TA, as this was part time and therefore less risky. (within last 3 months) Last month 18 year old on a level 3 Engineering course at college. Said he had considered it but felt that the services took the wrong sort of people. He wanted to work with people he could trust. A 19-year-old young man "D" came in wanting careers advice after having left the Navy. He had witnessed a shipmate throw/push a girlfriend (a fellow crew member) through a window. He felt that this had not been taken seriously by the Navy the crewmember in question only got a light punishment. D felt he should have been discharged or imprisoned. D did not want to work for an organisation that condoned this type of behaviour. (This was a year or two ago) The Army experience activities are good at helping young people decide if the Army is for them although there are issues about providing chaperones for girls. Schools and colleges are being asked to provide them if they send any girls on these activities. Careers Adviser in the West Midlands
At a recent Careers Evening held in the
xxxxxxxxxxxx area I was surprised to see how
interested young people were in the Armed Forces stand. They had the longest queue over the
whole evening.
Careers Adviser in a college in North Wales
The only way that I can judge is to say
that I have observed a significant decrease in the numbers coming forward for
interviews with the RAF and Army Services Liaison staff in the last six
years-decreasing from 6-8 enquiries each term to none at all, or the occasional
one.
I can't personally see why this
might be, but suspect that when the economy is buoyant and there are other
jobs, people may opt for these instead. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the
reporting of casualties, news stories about bullying, unexplained deaths etc
probably don't help.
Careers
Adviser in the South of England
I have no case study to offer but I have seen a number of Y11 leavers at school who are interested in joining the armed forces, some immediately after Y11 and others after studying the Public Services Course at college. The majority seem to be thinking about the Army. After checking that their decision is well researched and thought out, I usually advise them to speak to the Army Careers Officer based locally before making a final decision. Many are attracted by the possibility of learning a trade especially where there are limited opportunities locally. Others are attracted by the possibility of a pension from the armed forces, while others simply want to join the fighting arm of the Army. Careers Adviser in Scotland
In my opinion young people are as
interested as ever in joining the forces. Many still see it as a good career
and in an economic black spot like xxxxxxxxxx one of the best routes into
employment.
However of the record there seems to be
some concern about armed forces representatives coming into careers centres to
publicise their wares. As a careers
adviser of many years standing I begin to despair! ! Perhaps if the Government
decided that careers advisers have a lead role in encouraging young people to
consider the forces this will be hit on the head
Careers
Adviser in the East Midlands
I have noticed a reduction in young
people asking about careers in the armed forces. One young man told me he has
been put off applying as he has now realised that he might actually have
to go to war!! The realities of the services have been in the news much more
recently. I feel in the past a number of my clients didn't fully understand
what being in the forces really meant and they are now making a more informed
choice albeit from what they see on the TV.
19 March 2008
