RR 14

 

Supplementary memorandum from the Institute of Career Guidance

 

The results were collated from members responses received over the last month. Please note there were no responses from Northern Ireland or South West England. Each section tables results from the regions followed by a series of the key comments received.

 

How often are schools visited by the Armed Forces?

 

	Frequently	Rarely	Not at all
Scotland	70%	30%	-
Wales	-	100%	-
North East England	100%	-	-
North West England	-	-	100%
Yorkshire & Humberside	67%	33%	-
Eastern England	50%	50%	-
West Midlands	50%	50%	-
East Midlands	100%	-	-
London	60%	-	40%
South England	37.5%	62.5%	-
Channel Islands	100%	-	-

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- Frequently - There are good communication links with the local Armed Forces Recruitment Office and that, in conjunction with the GRFW Army Prep Course, may be one reason why the Armed Forces do not see the need to visit schools on a more regular basis.

 

- Frequently - Attend any career events and career information parent evenings. School attend Army career events usually held on annual basis. Also seem to have contact through Operation Youth Advantage in co-ordination with community police in school - this involves 1 week course giving taster of Army life for pupils at risk of criminality/ disengagement from school etc.

 

- Frequently - The Armed forces are almost always represented at annual schools careers convention and occasionally visit for example to help with interview practice.

 

- Rarely - However this is more to do with the schools and not the Armed Forces.

 

- Rarely - A lot of local authorities do not allow Armed Forces to visit schools.

 

Eastern England;

- Frequently - A new link has recently been made and the Army are making links with school locally via Connexions Personal Advisers, so this should be more frequent.

 

West Midlands;

- Frequently - But only at the invitation of the schools. I do 13 - 16 work in two secondary schools in Shropshire. The local Shrewsbury AFCO is active in both these schools and their inputs are well received and welcomed by pupils and the Head of Careers / Head of PSHE who both appreciate the enormous help they give in filling parts of the school's careers curriculum. Individuals from the armed forces act as positive role models to young people in school, their professionalism, positive attitude must impact in a positive way on young people. It is surprising, to say the least, that the young men least likely to respond to the disciplined approach in school actively aspire to enter the even more disciplined environment of the armed forces, and go on to flourish.

 

 

 

London;

- Frequently - selective grammar school for boys. RAF and Army come once a year but are more than happy to come more frequently.

 

- Frequently - every year, relates to FE college in South London - student population mainly black and ethnic minorities.

 

South England;

- Rarely, this is my experience, but when they do come in, they are excellent.  The Armed Forces also run some exceptionally good outdoor/off school site activities and I have the backing of my school to use them at any opportunity.  When the Army come into school, they work with individuals or groups.  When working with any group or individual, they offer a non-threatening and informative approach.  The also offer some excellent offsite residential programmes, including the 5-day Insight course - a great alternative to "normal" work experience!

 

- At least annually. All Services attend school careers event aimed at Y10 & Y11 students. Their stands usually have very long queues though afterwards students often say it does not mean they want to join, more that the stands and displays etc. are interesting. It does however sow a seed of interest for the future.

- Schools seem not to have time to allow students to access outside organisations during lesson times. It also depends on the pro-activeness of the Careers Coordinator who is able to invite employers and training providers to come into the school.

 

- Rarely, but they are generally good at responding to requests to attend events.

 

 

Which branch of the Services appears to be most active in links with schools?

 

	Army	Navy	Air Force
Scotland	100%	-	-
Wales	100%	-	-
North East England	100%	-	-
North West England	100%	-	-
Yorkshire & Humberside	100%	-	-
Eastern England	100%	-	-
West Midlands	100%	-	-
East Midlands	100%	-	-
London	80%	-	20%
South England	87.5%	-	12.5%
Channel Islands	-	-	100%

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- Army, then Navy and Air Force

 

- The Army does seem to recruit more actively than the other services. This is in evidence at recruitment fairs, higher education conventions, etc.

- We hold a careers convention annually in my school and all 3 branches always attend

 

- We have run many types of careers fairs, jobs fairs etc and have invited the armed forces to take part. We would normally check with the school that they are happy for the services to be part of this (at least that is what we used to do when I was more involved and I presume we still do). Very few schools said no to such visits.

 

Yorkshire & Humberside;

- The Army clearly requires more recruits than the other services and is always keen to be involved in any event. All three services are regular exhibitors at the annual careers fair run by Connexions, and at other local events. They particularly welcome the opportunity to talk with parents.

 

West Midlands;

- We have inputs by all three branches, and enjoy good links with all three, but in my opinion the branch with the most involvement currently is the Army, then the Royal Navy, and finally of course the Air Force.

 

- We used to have regular visits from the Royal Navy but this seems to be very much dependent on the link person.  The Army are certainly more active with their links - in particular the TA who had a very strong recruitment campaign recently.  The TA seems to be in "competition" with the Army for attending events.

 

London;

- Air force and army frequently visit.

 

- Army always, navy rarely, air force never, also had events from Royal Army Medical Corps (relate to FE college in South London - student population mainly black and ethnic minorities)

 

South England;

- This is because there seems to be more interest in Army Careers by students and they contact schools more frequently than the Navy or Air Force with their activities.

 

- Some students take up Army work experience offers in Y10. I don't think they have done so with other Navy or RAF. Also Army has a Careers Office in the neighbouring town whereas students have to travel 15 miles or more to the Joint Services Centre

 

 

Are visits more frequent than, say, 5 years ago?

 

	Yes	No	Don't Know
Scotland	10%	90%	-
Wales	-	-	100%
North East England	-	100%	-
North West England	-	100%	-
Yorkshire & Humberside	-	100%	-
Eastern England	-	50%	50%
West Midlands	-	100%	-
East Midlands	100%	-	-
London	40%	20%	40%
South England	37.5%	50%	12.5%
Channel Islands	-	100%	-

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- I have not worked in a school for just over two years but till then I did not see much of a change.

 

- In the past the Army visited local Opportunity Centres to advertise themselves but this has now been stopped, partly due to poor uptake.

 

- They seem to be about the same

 

Yorkshire & Humberside;

- Too many constraints on the curriculum make it difficult for schools to find the time to insert presentations from outside agencies.

 

- We see the Army most regularly; we have to request the RAF as they are so busy. I request the Navy when a student asks me to.

 

West Midlands;

- No - but I think we have more effective links now than 5 years ago.

 

- No - I think is because I do not actively encourage then to visit more regularly - they would if this was permitted!

 

 

How often are career advisers and teachers invited on familiarisation visits by the Armed Forces?

 

	Frequently	Rarely	Not at all
Scotland	50%	40%	10%
Wales	-	-	100%
North East England	-	-	100%
North West England	50%	50%	-
Yorkshire & Humberside	33.33%	33.33%	33.33%
Eastern England	-	-	100%
West Midlands	-	100%	-
East Midlands	100%	-	-
London	50%	25%	25%
South England	50%	37.5%	12.5%
Channel Islands	-	100%	-

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- The Army offers visits, usually annually or bi-annually, for Careers Advisers. The service also offers away days, etc for members of Activate Groups.

 

- Invited to Army Careers event along with schools. Will often see stands from other forces too at Jobs Fairs/ career events that Careers Scotland are involved with. Have also attended Navy events on ship when in harbour- we are always invited when this is organised. Have not attended any events from RAF- have mainly linked up with them at career events in school or at external careers events.

 

- I think they used to be more common

 

Yorkshire & Humberside;

- The Connexions Agenda has meant that our company focuses on reducing NEETS and reaching the hard to help. This is seen as more of a priority than attending visits to update our professional knowledge.

 

- I used to be asked frequently, but I am just too busy with my day job. These visits take two full days.

 

- Several years ago our careers service was one of those which signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the forces. This was intended to link their recruitment process to our system of advising and referring suitable and potential clients through a set of procedures. We did attempt to follow these, but the local AFCO tended to discourage our advisers from doing any more than "tell them to come down and see us". Subsequently the forces may have felt that careers services were not helping to solve their recruitment problems. Perhaps for this reason, and other issues of logistics and cost, the invitations to military bases/camps/awareness days etc., dried up quite abruptly. As the named link to the Forces, I still receive the odd invitation to road- shows and publicity events, but the opportunities which the longer visits offered to actually speak with new recruits at different stages of their initial training no longer seem to exist, which is a pity.

 

Eastern England;

- Both the Army and the RAF have arranged a presentation to Connexions Personal Advisers recently so communication has been approved.

 

West Midlands;

- Rarely, however, that said when visits to military establishments have been arranged in the past for pupils, teaching staff will of course attend with the pupils. Both my schools have enjoyed visits to Portsmouth where the overnight stay on one of the naval training ships has been extremely well received by all concerned. It is a shame that due to Government cut backs this sort of liaison between the forces and the community no longer happens. I am sure that this will reduce / have reduced the bond of trust, understanding and support that exists between the British military personnel and ordinary members of the public.

 

London;

- I have been invited to Sandhurst and an RAF three day selection.  Not sure that I can justify all this time off for this.  They are very pro-active.  Our head teacher attended a Sandhurst Selection when considering whether to set up an Army training corps unit here.  The latter did not happen as it requires additional efforts from a teaching staff who already are heavily involved in school fixtures and sport.

 

South England;

- We are not often in a position to go as the visits tend to get rationed out between us.

 

- The Army, in particular, visits Connexions Centre and attends Team Meetings. Occasional visits offered.

 

-  I attended an excellent RAF assessment exercise for potential recruits in July 2006.

 

- Normally the opportunity occurs annually however it is not practical for all staff to be able to attend

 

 

Is this more or less frequent than, say, 5 years ago?

 

	Yes	No	Don't Know
Scotland	30%	70%	-
Wales	-	-	100%
North East England	100%	-	-
North West England	66.66%	33.33%	-
Yorkshire & Humberside	100%	-	-
Eastern England	-	50%	50%
West Midlands	50%	50%	-
East Midlands	-	-	100%
London	40%	20%	40%
South England	50%	37.5%	12.5%
Channel Islands	100%	-	-

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- Less Frequent - We use to get invites up to about 10 years ago but these seem to have dried up altogether.

 

- Less Frequent - There used to be regular trips for careers advisers to Army, RAF and Navy bases.

 

North East England;

- Less Frequent

 

North West England;

- Less frequent than five years ago

 

Yorkshire & Humberside;

- All those that responded said - less frequent

 

West Midlands;

- Less frequently in view of reductions in funding for this by Government.

 

South England;

- Less frequent I feel. Many years ago it was quite common for Careers Advisers to be offered visits to Stations etc.

 

- More frequent.

 

-  I have not noticed any more or less recruiting. I invite career liaison officers into our school to talk to interested young people about the armed forces. It is up to those young people to come to their own personal decisions, based around discussions with family and careers interviews.

 

- Has been the same for the 10 years I have worked in careers

 

Channel Islands;

- It is less frequent.

 

 

Where do you think that young people get information about Armed Forces careers?

 

	School	Armed Forces Career Team	Parents & Family	Media	Careers Adviser	All
Scotland	-	40%	30%	30%	10%	50%
Wales	-	-	-	-	-	-
North East England	-	50%	-	-	50%	-
North West England	-	33.33%	66.66%	33.33%	66.66%	33.33%
Yorkshire & Humberside	-	100%	66.66%	33.33%	66.66%	-
Eastern England	-	-	-	-	50%	50%
West Midlands	-	-	-	50%	-	-
East Midlands	-	-	100%	-	-	-
London	-	40%	40%	40%	20%	40%
South England	25%	25%	50%	50%	37.5%	37.5%
Channel Islands	-	-	-	50%	50%	-

 

Comments

 

Scotland;

- Many young people have forces connections through families and have gained a lot of information from that. They will often have visited the Army Careers centre too before coming for interview. I don't get the impression that I am their first point of information about Army Careers but I will always direct them to relevant websites, if they have not already accessed them.

 

- Some young people have family links and gain information this way. They also gain information from Schools Careers Conventions and the local Armed Forces Careers Office.

 

- Many young people will get information from all these sources. Also they will get information from Careers events like conventions and fairs etc. The cinema seems to be a favourite way as well with high profile advertising.

 

- The armed forces careers teams do a good job of advising young people about such careers. While they are obviously keen to get any opportunity to engage with young people, the actual recruitment process is a very lengthy one and there is no way that the armed services want to fool pupils into thinking a career in the services has no element of danger (press ganging was abandoned in the 18^th century I believe!). I think the recent spat in the media over armed forces recruiting is due to some extreme comments from some teachers who seem to equate talking to people about a career in the armed forces with propaganda and says more about their attitude to the armed forces that about the reality of armed services recruitment. Careers Scotland staff can discuss armed services careers with young people but would always refer them to the armed services careers teams if they seriously want to consider such a career. As an organisation, we would not want to discriminate against the services by not inviting them to careers / jobs fairs because they are an employer like anyone else and should have the same opportunities to raise awareness of their careers as others. Young people might be initially attracted by the glamour / excitement of armed forces recruitment materials but it would be impossible for them to go through a recruitment process of several months without being made aware of the realities of a career in the services.

 

- All of the above. In addition, young people who are members of Army Cadet Forces frequently report that the staff who run these groups encourage them to join the Army. This encouragement seems to be less persistent in the Air Cadets. I can't remember how many years it has been since a youngster last told me that s/he was in the Sea Cadets.

 

- All of the above. Careers Advisers will give information when requested but most will not be proactive. Strongest influence is probably parents and family and tradition in certain parts of the country to join the Armed Forces.

 

North East England;

- A career in the armed forces has always been a popular option for school leaver in the North East. Whilst there does not appear to be much change in the number of young people who are interested the proportion of females to males has changed. There appears to have been an increase in the number of females who are interested. It has also been noted that these young people are more informed about the various career options available in the armed forces, with nursing being an area of particular interest. The current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are having an influence although this appears not to be with young people themselves, but rather their parents and carers.

 

North West England;

- Careers resources e.g. in our library and also from tutors if studying a Public Services course.

 

- Usually from a combination of sources but clients are referred to the Armed forces careers team by advisers working in schools.

 

- Parents and Family, then Schools, then Armed Forces Careers Teams, then Careers Advisers and then Media.

 

Yorkshire & Humberside;

- The majority of young people who want to join the Armed forces have parents and/or grandparents who are in or who were in the Armed forces. This has been my experience through conducting vocational guidance interviews.

 

- Students who have family in the Forces are far more likely to want to join, and those who are friends with these students can be a little interested. Our CCF is also a factor.

 

- These are the approaches which are likely to engage directly with young people - whether via TV advertising into their homes, or careers teams who set up stands and caravans in shopping precincts where young people congregate. Schools have a variety of attitudes to the forces and will act accordingly. Career Advisers will act in accordance with the principles of objective guidance; but if working to Connexions contracts may be restricted as to who they see - though some of the more disaffected may show an interest in military life, they may not be regarded as suitable. Advisers also rely on the careers information supplied by the forces being up to date: if there is no named link adviser, this may well not happen.

 

Eastern England;

- The Army are now having a weekly surgery in the Connexions centre and the RAF are coming in monthly

 

West Midlands;

- The three branches of the armed forces appear to have extremely smart / responsive web sites. In particular I am aware of the 'FAQ's, and 'Army Careers Adviser on line service' sections on the army web site. I personally do provide armed forces careers information when requested by young people, and this is always well received. Local school's have packs of information for their school's careers library, BUT under recent changes in the provision of IAG in schools the importance of the careers library has been much reduced, (if not altogether removed), and I am not confident that young people can easily access this information any longer. The careers professional, free to exercise his / her professional judgement in the school context is able to promote a balanced and realistic view of the armed forces with each young person they engage with. With careers guidance provision currently diluted and subsumed by 'Connexions', 'a social exclusion' and 'child protection' agenda the future outlook for impartial, professional careers guidance does not look good. Young people get their IAG from a variety of sources at the times they need it. There needs to be a known source of impartial, confidential and professional careers IAG maintained in schools and 'patch localities' that young people can access. The careers guidance professional is that person. The current 'social exclusion', 'child protection' models threaten the integrity of our professional approach and is leading to a situation where anyone seems free to promote themselves as a 'careers professional'.

 

- As a 6^th Form College I do not think we are targeted as much as school (in addition. the times they have been in they have not found much interest from students)   I do feel that the Armed Forces should not be excluded from College events but their involvement should be as part of a general Careers awareness event/activity where other careers are also represented..  We have a Careers Convention to which they are invited and this seems to work well.

 

London;

- I actively support people coming in to the school but many schools have the perception that the forces are not an option - poor equipment, poor living conditions (barracks) and that they may see active service too quickly - in the past it was join the army and you will see the world where as now it is more likely they will see active service quite quickly.

 

- Most of the young people in my school who are interested in Army/RAF careers have been involved with the relevant CADETs for some time.

 

- Responding as parent - Although not organised initially by the school, both boys have been on 'work experience' programmes arranged by the military. Events such as Air Shows, "Meet the Navy", Military Music programmes, and membership of the local ATC Squadron and Sea Cadets Corps have been very influential in helping them to make up their minds. Examples of media "On the front line", "Navy News" and of course the Web.

 

- All of the above, but mainly influenced by peers and family not to join up (relate to FE college in South London - student population mainly black and ethnic minorities).

 

South England;

- All of the above.  Sometimes it depends on a student's background, information of which is not always correct.  The Army jobs website is excellent.  Having Armed Forces teams in school can really help students decide whether or not they want to consider a career in the forces. Armed Forces careers advisers have always been helpful, courteous and the work they offer to our students has always been outstanding.  I would be very sad to see any opportunity cease.

 

- Probably their Careers Teams first. However we have a school in our area with a high intake of Service families from the nearby Army base so families will play a large role there. The Barracks in our town closed 3 or 4 years ago so the Army link has been lost to some extent.

 

- All of the above and also the Internet through the websites

 

- Schools do not seem competent to give information on Armed Forces. Literature is from the Armed Forces is also not regularly updated by schools. This may be because the Armed Forces will not be sending the literature to schools.

 

 

- Huge range of sources for young people - I do not think that there is any one source of information that stands out. Peers are not mentioned in the list above - peers have often experienced activities at first hand and may be able to give very relevant and fresh perspectives on a particular career area. Peers in the armed services will clearly give honest opinions to their near contemporaries.

 

- They would probably get more info from Army Careers teams but they don't always have easy access to these i.e. if they don't come into school on a regular basis it relies on the young person going to them which is a journey of at least 15 miles, so you've got to want to find out more, hard to inspire the casual caller.

 

2 May 2008