Examination of Witnesses (Question 200-202)
MR PHIL
WOOLAS MP, MS
JAN THOMPSON,
MR CHRIS
DODWELL AND
MR SCOTT
WIGHTMAN
25 MARCH 2008
Q200 Mr Stuart: Do you think a reformed
CDM is the right instrument to deal with deforestation?
Mr Woolas: Yes and no is the answer.
The United States' position has been caricatured as one which
says, "Why should we pay criminals not to do something that
they shouldn't be doing anyway?" In other words, why should
a market pay someone or a government pay someone not to do something
illegal. The alternative point of view is to say that if you are
to base carbon policies on science rather than on politics then
carbon sinks are just as important and have to be taken into account
in the same way as a power station does; and we are in the latter
camp. On your baseline you have two considerations: you have the
national baseline and the very sensitive issue of national sovereignty,
particularly as expressed by Brazil, Indonesia and indeed other
countries; then you have the point that was related to before
about additionality. If we can show verifiable mechanisms of deforestation
projects that take on board the sustainability then I think they
will be part of the carbon market, but the jury is out on this
issue.
Q201 Mr Stuart: What about the EU
ETS? Would it completely destabilise the ETS if reforestation
or deforestation credits were allowed to enter in?
Mr Woolas: At the moment, yes.
Other things being equal, it would have such an impact that it
would cut our nose to spite our face. Our policy is to work towards
the inclusion of deforestation and aforestation of course within
that market.
Q202 Mr Stuart: Do you basically
accept that eco-services, if you like, provided by forests being
paid for is part of the long-term future?
Mr Woolas: Yes, we do.
Ms Thompson: If you were including
it you would have to have deeper commitments and would have to
do the balancing. The point I was going to make was, there is
a mechanism for piloting approaches of how to tackle forestry
issues. In Bali the UK Government announced a contribution of
£15 million to the World Bank's forest carbon partnership
facility which has a couple of funds in it—a readiness fund
which looks at building capacity in developing countries so that
they can measure these emissions properly and try and address
issues of leakage and that sort of thing; and a carbon fund which
looks at testing out incentive mechanisms and how payments are
to be made and whether or not this comes through carbon markets,
through public finance and to whom those payments would go and
so on. Those pilots are getting underway now through this year
and next so we can see where we get to by the time we are looking
to conclude an international agreement.
Mr Woolas: It is worth saying
that Bali did include this. I thought personally that one of the
greatest breakthroughs of Bali was that.
Chairman: We have covered quite a lot
of ground in the last two hours. We are grateful to both you and
your officials for coming in both for the content and the manner
in which you have dealt with our questions. We much appreciate
that.
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