Examination of Witnesses (Questions 311-319)
MR DUNCAN
GRAHAM CBE, MR
MIKE JENKINS
AND MR
LESTER WILLMINGTON
11 JUNE 2008
Q311 Chairman: Let us move on to our
next evidence session. Can I say at the outset, I was hoping to
be able to formally welcome Mr Phil Bennett-Lloyd, the Environment
Manager of Norfolk County Council, but with the wonders of mobile
telephony he has rung in to tell us that his train has hit some
serious problems—I think there is something wrong with the
line—to the extent that he is not going to be able to come
and give evidence to us. He has telephoned in his apologies, but
we did not want people to wonder where on earth he was as he already
had star billing as one of our witnesses, but, sadly, he will
not be with us. However, we do have a star-studded cast left.
Can I formally welcome, on behalf of Cumbria Countryside Access
Board of the Cumbria County Council and the Cumbria Local Access
Forum, Mr Duncan Graham, who is their Chairman—you are most
welcome—and from Devon County Council, Mr Mike Jenkins,
who is their Public Rights of Way Manager, and Mr Lester Willmington,
their Head of Highway Management. You will understand, obviously,
that just as there are some specific issues that affect the south-west,
so there were some specific issues that affected Norfolk that
were going to guide our questioning. If there are areas of things
that we ask you about that you think, "That does not quite
qualify what we know about", then we will understand if the
answer cannot be as full as it might have been had we had our
representative from Norfolk. I wonder if you might collectively,
certainly from the Devon point of view, give us the benefit of
your thoughts in terms of the experience that you have had so
far, particularly in creating coastal paths in your part of the
world that, in terms of lessons learnt, might be relevant to this
legislation?
Mr Jenkins: A lot of the coast
path that we have in Devon was established through the Definitive
Map process back in the 1950s, but we have been in negotiation
with a number of landowners to fill in various missing gaps and
we have drawn attention in our submission to the fact that we
have nine missing gaps in the existing coast path, about 12 kilometres
in all, which we would like to see resolved one way or the other.
We have been endeavouring to fill those gaps in through negotiation
for, in some cases, the last 30 years, but without success, so
we see the Marine Bill as being a very positive move to help us
fill in these missing gaps which we have on the south-west coast
path.
Q312 Chairman: So there are gaps
in the path. You have just heard us having a discussion about
maintenance issues, because you have got a coastal path and somebody
has got to look after it. What are the difficulties you have established
in that respect to date?
Mr Jenkins: It is a very well-used
path in Devon. I heard some of the questions before. We have user
numbers up to about 150,000 people a year in places typically
on the coast path. We would expect 25,000 people a year using
more rural sections. We have full-time wardens who maintain the
route. It is grant-aided by Natural England 75 per cent and, in
broad terms, it costs about a thousand pounds a mile to maintain
the coast path.
Q313 Chairman: How many miles have
you got?
Mr Jenkins: There is 180 miles
of coast path in the geographic county of Devon.
Q314 Chairman: That is potentially
a budget of £180,000 a year in terms of maintenance.
Mr Jenkins: It is actually 200,000.
Q315 Chairman: It has gone up!
Mr Jenkins: There are additional
parts because it also includes subsidies for ferries and that
type of thing.
Chairman: That is very helpful to know.
Q316 David Lepper: You said there
were nine gaps in the south-west coast path so far and you have
been attempting to fill them for some years. Could you give us
some idea of how you have gone about trying to fill those gaps,
presumably unsuccessfully?
Mr Jenkins: We have filled a lot
of gaps in. As I say, we are left with now nine. We are particularly
concerned about one section in South Devon. It was about five
miles long but the public had to use the road network. To give
you some idea, we put people-counters on either side of the road
section, and we believe we are getting users of about 25,000 people
a year. On the bit where there is no coast path and people have
to use the roads that figure drops to about 5,000 people a year.
So it makes a significant difference not having a viable coastal
route for the public.
Q317 David Lepper: Has the problem
been securing permission from the owners of land to extend the
path on those routes or are there different geographical features?
Mr Jenkins: There are a number
of landowners involved. In fact, we are now left with two sections.
We have reached agreement with most of the landowners, but we
have difficulties with two of the landowners at the moment, and
it boils down to compensation. We have been working with Natural
England on this matter and the figure that the district valuer
has come up with is not acceptable to the landowners concerned.
In some cases, I think, they are probably expecting a figure twice
what the district valuer has estimated. In another case it is
probably a factor of three or four times what the district valuer
has estimated.
Q318 David Lepper: Is that farmed
land?
Mr Jenkins: No, the two cases
in point probably fall into the category of garden.
Q319 David Lepper: Garden?
Mr Jenkins: Yes.
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