Formal Minutes
Tuesday 11 December 2007
Members present:
Rt Hon Keith Vaz, in the Chair
| Mr Jeremy Browne
Ms Karen Buck
Mr James Clappison
David TC Davies
Mrs Janet Dean
Patrick Mercer
| | Margaret Moran
Gwyn Prosser
Bob Russell
Martin Salter
Mr Gary Streeter
Mr David Winnick
|
Draft Report (The Government's Counter-Terrorism Proposals), proposed
by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph
by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 and 2 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 3 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraph 4 read and agreed to.
New paragraph—(The Chairman)—brought up, read
the first and second time and inserted (now paragraph 5).
Paragraphs 5 to 24 (now 6 to 25) read and agreed to.
Two new paragraphs—(Margaret Moran)—brought
up, read the first and second time, and inserted (now paragraphs
26 and 27).
Three new paragraphs—(Martin Salter)—brought
up, read the first and second time, and inserted (now paragraphs
28 to 30).
Paragraphs 25 to 53 (now paragraphs 31 to 59) read and agreed
to.
Paragraph 54 (now paragraph 60) read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraph 55 (now paragraph 61) read and agreed to.
New paragraph—(The Chairman)—brought up, read
the first and second time, and inserted (now paragraph 62).
Paragraphs 56 to 65 (now paragraphs 63 to 72) read and agreed
to.
Paragraph 66 read:
"66. If in the future the police were to find the 28-day
period inadequate because of a major incident which required multiple
and more complex investigations than have been experienced to
date, we consider that any mechanism for increasing the limit
would have to comprise the following elements. On receipt of a
certificate signed by both the DPP and the relevant Chief Constable
that the current period was inadequate, the Home Secretary would
have to submit to Parliament an affirmative instrument to allow
an extension in that case, with a specified upper time limit.
The extension of the time limit would be subject to the same judicial
process as under the current legislation: in other words, the
police would have to persuade the CPS to apply for an extension
for no more than seven days at a time, and there would be a hearing
before a judge on each application."
Paragraph disagreed to.
A new paragraph—(Mr David Winnick)—brought
up and read, as follows:
"However, in conclusion we have not been persuaded that an
extension to the period of detention without charge is needed.
In particular, we note again the comments of the Director of Public
Prosecutions that the Crown Prosecution Service was satisfied
with the current limit of 28 days. Moreover, the point Sir Ken
made regarding the difficulties of a successful prosecution where
a person has been held for a period of, say, 25 or 26 days and
where no charge of reasonable suspicion has been made carries
in our view much weight."
Question put, that the paragraph be read a second time.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 2
Bob Russell
Mr David Winnick
| Noes, 8
Ms Karen Buck
David T C Davies
Mrs Janet Dean
Patrick Mercer
Margaret Moran
Gwyn Prosser
Martin Salter
Gary Streeter
|
New paragraph disagreed to.
Two further new paragraphs—(Martin Salter)—brought
up and read, as follows:
"We considered the proposal from Liberty, that
Part 2 of the Civil Contingencies Act (CCA) 2004 could be used
in exceptional circumstances where the complexity of the suspected
terrorist plots was likely to overwhelm the capacity of the police
and security services. However, we concluded that this was not
an intended use of the powers under the CCA, that there were significant
legal problems and that it would not be sensible for a national
state of emergency to be triggered in the middle of a major investigation.
"If, in these exceptional circumstances, a temporary
extension of the pre-charge detention period is deemed essential
to secure successful prosecutions of terrorist suspects, the Government
should consider building support for proposals that effectively
reform the powers of the CCA, secure Parliamentary scrutiny and
judicial oversight, but stop short of the requirement to declare
a full-scale state of emergency. We urge the Government to begin
urgent discussions with other parties on this basis."
Question put, That the paragraph be read a second
time.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 11
Mr Jeremy Browne
Ms Karen Buck
Mr James Clappison
David T C Davies
Mrs Janet Dean
Patrick Mercer
Margaret Moran
Gwyn Prosser
Bob Russell
Martin Salter
Mr Gary Streeter
| Noes, 1
Mr David Winnick |
Paragraphs inserted (now paragraphs 73 and 74).
Paragraphs 67 to 95 (now paragraphs 75 to 103) read
and agreed to.
New paragraph—(Mr James Clappison)—brought
up, read the first and second time, and inserted (now paragraph
104).
Paragraphs 96 to 98 (now paragraphs 105 to 107) read
and agreed to.
Summary read, amended and agreed to.
Question put, That the Report, as amended, be the
First Report of the Committee to the House.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 11
Mr Jeremy Browne
Ms Karen Buck
Mr James Clappison
David T C Davies
Mrs Janet Dean
Patrick Mercer
Margaret Moran
Gwyn Prosser
Bob Russell
Martin Salter
Mr Gary Streeter
| Noes, 1
Mr David Winnick
|
Ordered, That the Chairman
make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed
copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the
provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the
House for printing with the Report.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 18 December at 10.00 am
| 
