Examination of Witness (Questions 20-28)
MR JOHN
GING
30 APRIL 2008
Q20 Sir Robert Smith: I wonder if
I could ask a follow up on the funding. We have talked a lot about
percentages and in general. Are you able to put a simple figure
on the amount of actual cash needed for the emergency funding
and the amount needed to get the general fund up to standard?
Mr Ging: Yes, we need approximately
US$130 million for the general fund, and our emergency appeal
is totally US$168 million. We are expecting to receive something
in the order of US$90 million; so the shortfall there is US$78
million.
Q21 Chairman: John, there are a couple
of questions that have occurred to me. We are taking evidence
here in London a little later this morning from Oxfam, and in
their written submission to us they, first of all, pointed out
that Israel had established a list of only 18 items it would allow
into Gaza as humanitarian goods.[2]
Is this the case, and what impact does that have? They make the
point that, for example, it excludes cement required for the sewage
treatment plant and electric motors required for generators. Is
this in fact the case?
Mr Ging: We have not been provided
with a list. We have asked the Israelis on numerous occasions
if there is a list and, if so, what items are on it. They have
not provided us with clarification of that. Other than that, our
practical experience is that the only items that are allowed into
Gaza without special co-ordination and justification are food
items and medicines. After that, items like cement and other supplies,
which even if they are directly for the provision of humanitarian
assistance—which is repairs to a clinic, extension of a
clinic, whatever—these items are not being allowed and,
again, one has to prepare a long justification. For example, paper
for printing text books is not automatically approved. It has
to go through a long and tedious process because it is a non-food,
non-medical item, and therefore it has to get special co-ordination,
special justification, special permission.
Q22 Mr Singh: John, in terms of the
shortfall in funding and in terms of funding generally, could
not that shortfall in funding generally be met in a breath by
the oil-rich Gulf states and, if so, why are they not meeting
it?
Mr Ging: This, of course, is an
appeal that our Commissioner General made, and she made it at
the Arab League last autumn. We have hired a fund raiser, a former
British ambassador, Peter Ford, who is an Arabist, and he spends
all of his time in the Gulf trying to raise more money. There
is no question about it: we all feel that the Gulf countries have
the capacity to be more generous. They are generous outside of
the regular programming in terms of the construction, they are
our principal donor for new schools, for clinics and for other
infrastructure projects, but we are raising our appeal to them
continuously to be more generous for our general fund and for
our emergency appeal. To date the response has been very modest.
Q23 Mr Singh: Why should you need
a PR person to promote the Palestinian cause to Arabs?
Mr Ging: I understand your question.
The fact of the matter is that we have to make a better case because
we are not getting the funding. We are doing everything that we
possibly can to raise more money in the Gulf, and that has been
one of the efforts that we have taken here. So far it has not
materialised significant amounts of money, but I have to say that
we are making progress and our representative there is confident
that he will be able to lever more money with better explanation,
better, as I say, advocacy for the needs here. On the overall
question, this is a question for the countries involved. We are
appealing to them, we cannot do more than that, and we will continue
to do so.
Mr Singh: That is a considerable shame
on them, John, but thank you.
Q24 Richard Burden: Could I return
to the question that the Chairman asked a little earlier on about
non-food, non-medical supplies and the length of time they to
take get in. My question really is what is anybody doing about
this? You said that you have made representations to the Government
of Israel. Can you tell us anything about what representation
anybody else is making—the Quartet, other UN institutions,
individual governments, and so on—and if it is having any
effect? Is there any discernible change in the Israeli response
following those representations?
Mr Ging: I think it is fair to
say, from what I have read and been told, that it is the number
one issue for all involved in this area, whether it is international
organisations, whether it is the United Nations, whether it is
NGOs, whether it is the representatives of the international community
bilaterally or within the Quartet. Everybody is seized with this
issue. Unfortunately, we are not making very much progress. Even
Mr Blair's one project for Gaza, which he had the political backing
for, still has not been implemented, and it stands as testament
to the difficulties involved in overcoming the realities of this
policy, which is to close down the Gaza Strip. Again, it is affecting
all aspects of our operation here and we are reduced to, as I
said, the supply of very basic items of food and medicine and
little else. Anything else requires a massive effort and either
does not come or comes too late. In terms of the impact of everybody's
attention on this matter, I have to say it is not material. The
situation has not appreciably improved in access for supplies
to Gaza over the last 10 months since this policy was first implemented
after the June events.
Q25 Chairman: You mentioned in passing
that Hamas have facilitated the flow of fuel. I appreciate that
your job as an agency is to deliver relief to people in need regardless
of the political situation, but what is the relationship between
yourselves and the Hamas administration and, for that matter,
between Hamas and Fatah, because there are some suggestions that
Fatah are actually disrupting things or adding to the disruption
in Gaza. Is that your experience? How do you relate to the administration
within the country in terms of delivering your services?
Mr Ging: UNRWA is an independent
service provider, so we deal directly with the population that
we serve, which in the past has been a source of criticism on
all the aspects of the development of domestic structures, and
so on and so forth, but now it is something of a virtue. That
is the first point to make. The second point is that operational
relationships here on the ground, we have those relationships
that we need at many and all levels to discharge our responsibility.
The parties involved—which, of course, here is Hamas, Israel
and the Palestinian authority working from Ramallah—all
have responsibilities and we at the UN interact with them in so
far as we need them to discharge their responsibilities. For example,
the de facto reality here is that Hamas are in control
of the security situation in Gaza. Therefore, it is their responsibility,
as long as they choose to be the de facto power here, to
ensure an environment where the humanitarian agencies can freely
operate, and in the case of ourselves they are discharging that
responsibility. It is not that we have made any agreement with
them, it is nonetheless their responsibility to do that, and we
call on them to do that publicly and so on. In terms of the interrelationship
between the political factions Hamas, Fatah and all of the others,
it is extremely complicated, it is adversarial, it resulted in
major clashes last year, it has created the situation that we
now have here in Gaza. What we are trying to do at the humanitarian
end is to insulate the beneficiaries and our operations from the
effects in terms of the delivery of our services. Again, in our
schools we keep the interaction of politics outside of the gate
even though our school teachers are Palestinian. We have to insist
that there is no room for that in our installations in the delivery
of our services. The integrity, again, has to be ensured. There
is no political influence on the identification of beneficiaries,
and so on and so forth, and I am proud of the performance of our
10,000 Palestinian staff here at UNRWA in how they have drawn
on their responsibility and lived up to it. UNRWA has 60 years
of service here in Gaza, it is tested now more than ever before,
but it is meeting that challenge and it is meeting it through
its Palestinian staff who are preoccupied with service to fellow
refugees in an impartial and effective way and staying clear of
the very complicated situation which is very real.
Chairman: That is a very helpful response
in terms of understanding the difficulties you are working under.
Q26 Hugh Bayley: You say that it
is difficult to import spare parts for pumps for generators, and
yet rockets, or the materials to make rockets, seem to get into
Gaza. How does that happen?
Mr Ging: There is plenty of speculation
about the illegal conduits into Gaza—the tunnels, and so
on. I have no first-hand knowledge of this and, therefore, I am
not going to give evidence on what I do not actually know; but
the simple fact of the matter that we would like everybody to
focus on is that preventing humanitarian organisations from bringing
in the supplies that they need to provide the services that the
population desperately need here is not inhibiting those who are
making rockets, because the rockets continue to be fired. Again,
the price is being paid, not by those who are bent on violent
ways, but by the ordinary people, and it is not naive on my part
to point to this. There is a very real problem here: there are
tens of thousands who are bent on violence against Israel and
they terrorise the civilian population every day, relentlessly,
with these rockets that are fired from Gaza, but it is not ending.
This approach has not worked. It has not ended the firing of rockets,
it is not inhibiting them in firing rockets but what it is doing
is crushing the civilian population and it is altering their mindset.
It is having a devastating impact on the psychology of the people
here, who are becoming more and more desperate, and they are giving
in to the frustrations and the agendas that are there in terms
of violence, and so on, because they do not see any tangible alternative
and they feel a growing sense of injustice about why this is being
allowed to happen, how irrational it is that they are the ones
who are now walking. Not the guys who fire the rockets—they
are not inhibited by the fuel shortage, they continue to fire
the rockets—but the patients who need to get to the clinic,
the kids who need to get to the school, the ordinary people: they
are the ones who are doing the walking. Again, we need to focus
on this and, in the really very challenging security environment,
to find effective solutions to those challenges and discharge
our responsibility to the people as well.
Q27 Chairman: You said earlier on
that you were not aware of people who had died because of the
restrictions of movement, but we have information from the WHO,[3]
published in April, that says between 1 October and 2 March they
have details of 32 people who died because they could not get
specialist treatment. The reasons given: permit delay, delay at
the crossing, permit not issued for security reasons, border closure—those
kinds of things. Could you comment on that WHO report?
Mr Ging: Absolutely. Just to clarify,
our operation here is not involved first-hand in the issues of
co-ordinating access and hospital care, we are at the primary
health level, but, absolutely, the WHO, who are intimately involved,
are in a position to produce that report that you cited and they
have the data and the details and the facts to back up and substantiate
everything that is written in that report. Our sister agency are
very much on top of this issue and the report is based on fact
and reality here.
Q28 Chairman: Thank you very much
John. Can I say on behalf of the committee, we appreciate very
much the work that you are doing in extraordinarily difficult
circumstances and the huge amount of first-hand information you
have by being on the ground as directly as you are. We thank you
for taking the time to give us that very graphic description of
the problems. Clearly, what we hope our report can do is apply
some kind of pressure to ease the situation and ensure that the
humanitarian pressures, which are phenomenal, on the people of
Gaza can be lifted. I know you feel very passionately about that
too, and we thank you once again for the very clear evidence that
you have given us and for exchanging your views with us. Thanks
very much indeed.
Mr Ging: Thank you very much.
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