Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-104)
OFFICE OF
GOVERNMENT COMMERCE
& DEPARTMENT FOR
ENVIRONMENT, FOOD
AND RURAL
AFFAIRS
18 JUNE 2007
Q100 Ian Lucas: It is quite correct
that you are not telling people how to do it, but the fact is
that they are not doing it at all. That is the problem, is it
not?
Peter Fanning: In 65% of the cases,
it may have been prima face not sensible to do it because it was
obvious.
Q101 Ian Lucas: I am not talking
about renewable energy. I am talking about the BREEAM standards.
Helen Ghosh: Exactly. As I said
at the beginning, we put our hands up.
Q102 Ian Lucas: Yes, but this has
gone on for five years. I fail to understand how a compulsory
process cannot be followed in numerous Government Departments,
yet no one has done anything about it. Why is that?
Helen Ghosh: No one has done anything
about it because of the understanding that it is for accounting
officers and the people making the decisions on the contracts
to make the decisions overall on value for money bases, including
the very clear guidance in the Green Book about long-term sustainability
and whole-life costings. It is ultimately for those people to
decide. The framework that we have now set out for very clear
outcome targets, very clear public accountability—including
the messages that will be sent out by the NAO Report and this
Committee—and the increasing political focus on the matter
will mean that this situation will not occur again in the future.
Q103 Ian Lucas: Is not the reality
that no one thought that BREEAM targets were very important?
Helen Ghosh: You are putting what
I said another way round. Yes, it was not seen as a sufficient
priority against the other targets and pressures that people had.
In the world that we are now in, it will be seen as a priority,
not least because of the scrutiny of this Committee and others.
Peter Fanning: To say that no
one took the targets would be incorrect, because clearly some
Departments have. Indeed, the Treasury building on Horse Guards
proudly boasts its excellent BREEAM certificate on the vestibule
on the way in. It is on the left-hand side.
Q104 Ian Lucas: Can we be confident
when we see you again that these lamentable figures will not be
repeated?
Helen Ghosh: What I would like
to be confident about is that you will see an ever-increasing
improvement in the outcomes that we are achieving across the estate.
As Peter said, you will still get some lag of the projects coming
through, but I can assure you that you will not see such levels
of non-compliance against such targets.
Chairman: That concludes our hearing.
Sir John, it is rather sad that we have had to wait for the National
Audit Office to reveal the inadequacies of Government Departments
in this respect, and we would encourage you to look again at the
matter in this Parliament, because various promises have been
made to us. It is quite clear that, despite promises made, it
is a low priority and only 9% of Government buildings meet your
own targets.
It is a poor Report and nothing that you, Mrs
Ghosh and Mr Fanning, have said has really convinced us very much.
You can expect a roasting in our Report. Let us hope that it does
not add any more carbon emissions. Thank you very much.
| 
