Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-157)
FOREIGN AND
COMMONWEALTH OFFICE
& DEPARTMENT FOR
INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
10 DECEMBER 2007
Q140 Mr Davidson: They have only
been to three, I think.
Sir Peter Ricketts: That has happened
in a few cases. It is expensive and therefore a number of the
territories find that a big financial burden.
Q141 Mr Davidson: So it has not been
done for financial reasons?
Sir Peter Ricketts: We have not
done it in all the territories. We have an adviser who can go
out to visit, we have a database of retired British police officers
who are available to go out to advise, to be seconded—
Q142 Mr Davidson: Do I take it then
that you are happy with the levels of expertise of all the police
forces in all the overseas territories at the moment?
Sir Peter Ricketts: No, I do not
think we are happy. I think we are always looking for improvement.
Q143 Mr Davidson: If you are not
happy, then there is this question of not being particularly active
and appearing a trifle complacent, and it just appears that you
are condoning behaviour which is not considered acceptable but
you are not doing anything about it. That is my anxiety. You have
had three Inspectorates of Constabulary visits but all the rest
have not had that. Do I take it then that the local governor has
a veto or the locally elected members have a veto in some way
over whether or not the police should be inspected?
Sir Peter Ricketts: It would be
for the local territory government to decide whether they wanted
to bring in the Inspector of Constabulary or some other process.
Q144 Mr Davidson: Even though the
governor has responsibility for law and order?
Sir Peter Ricketts: Yes, because
it is the government to find the money to implement what is necessary.
Q145 Mr Davidson: So if we have a
situation where the governor says, "This police force is
not up to the job" but the local government decides to do
nothing about it, we, you, are powerless, is that correct?
Sir Peter Ricketts: In the first
place, it is up to the governor to encourage governments of the
territories to prioritise the funds so we can do—
Q146 Mr Davidson: I understand that.
If we have a situation where the governor says, irrespective of
whatever diplomatic back and forwards we have had, "This
police force is not up to the job" and the local authorities/government
decide not to do anything about it, what then happens? Is the
governor powerless?
Sir Peter Ricketts: No, he is
not powerless because he has reserved powers, as is stated in
the Report, to require funding if absolutely necessary.
Q147 Mr Davidson: So the fact these
powers have never been used means that the governors in all circumstances
are happy in fact to put up with the levels of policing available
at the moment?
Sir Peter Ricketts: No, I do not
think they are happy, but the governor has to judge, does he want
to invoke this nuclear deterrent power of requiring funding from
the government, or can he achieve the objective in other ways
which are less confrontational in his territory.
Q148 Mr Davidson: Coming back to
the question of money laundering and those with investigative
powers, we can assume then that the governors in circumstances
where they feel these issues have not been adequately investigated,
or the capacity is not there, are declining to use the only weapon
that is available in their armoury if the local regime does not
agree and that is, as it were, the nuclear option? So we have
a situation where not upsetting the local jurisdiction is more
important than the probity of the financial system, is that true?
Sir Peter Ricketts: That is not
how I would describe the balance.
Q149 Mr Davidson: I know it is not
how you would describe it; I am asking you whether or not it is
true or false.
Sir Peter Ricketts: I do not agree
with it and I do not think that is an accurate way of describing
it. The governor has to balance—
Q150 Mr Davidson: I understand that.
Can I pursue a final point, aviation regulation and BVI, why are
we subsidising them to the tune of £600,000 a year when their
GDP is as great as that of Britain as a whole and is probably
a great deal more than my constituency?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I think the
aviation safety arrangements have been a success and I think this—
Q151 Mr Davidson: That is not what
I asked, I asked why are we subsidising them.
Sir Peter Ricketts: If I may I
will come to that. I think it has been a success, I think we now
need to move on from the UK subsidising it to increasingly the
funds being provided by the territories themselves and in the
case of BVI we should be now moving to the point where they can
take over their funding of it.
Q152 Mr Davidson: Why have we allowed
to develop a situation where people who are better off than people
in my constituency are being subsidised by us?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I think we
were right to set up this aviation safety risk management process
because one of the biggest liabilities we face would be a major
air accident or a major maritime accident. I think it has done
a good job, now I think we need to move off funding from the UK
and encourage the territories themselves to take on the funding
of it.
Q153 Mr Davidson: A final, final
point I wanted to ask is in terms of aid to the overseas territories.
I am aware that Cayman after Ivan got support from several other
jurisdictions, have there been other examples of that? Is that
something you are trying to build up so the overseas territories,
as it were, pool resources to some extent and work collaboratively?
Dr Shafik: Cayman in fact did
not receive aid from the UK after the hurricane because we felt
they were well enough off to be able to afford it themselves,
and actually they did an excellent job. We do encourage the overseas
territories to tap into other resources and the European Union
is an important source and pooling resources is something we are
looking at. For example, one of the issues in the territories
is up-dating their legal systems and we are funding a shared legal
drafting capacity in Anguilla which will serve three of the territories
and possibly more in the future, with qualified lawyers who can
help them drafting and up-dating their legal systems on a regular
basis.
Sir Peter Ricketts: A number of
the territories are pooling resources in terms of disaster management,
so they can help each other in the event of a major disaster.
Q154 Chairman: I have one last question.
I am looking at the map of South Georgia and the South Sandwich
Islands on page 57. The Falklands are a thousand miles away, what
would you do if an Argentine whaler or business landed on one
of these islands and started doing business? It happened before,
did it not, in 1982? Would that be your response? Where is the
nearest Royal Navy ship?
Sir Peter Ricketts: It might be
in and around the Falkland Islands.
Q155 Chairman: A thousand miles away?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I do not suppose
it would be closer than that.
Q156 Chairman: You have worked this
all out, have you? It happened once before, did it not?
Sir Peter Ricketts: It is a very
remote area, Mr Chairman, yes. It would be a challenge.
Q157 Chairman: It would be a challenge.
The Royal Navy is up to it, is it?
Sir Peter Ricketts: The Royal
Navy is always up to a challenge, I think, Mr Chairman.
Chairman: All right, we will leave it
there. Thank you very much for your attendance.
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