Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-119)
DEPARTMENT FOR
TRANSPORT & DVLA
17 OCTOBER 2007
Q100 Mr Dunne: Do you know how many
enforcement officers the DVLA has?
Mr Bennett: I can get the number
for you. We have actually increased the number of enforcement
officers this last year or so. I am just trying to find the numbers
now. There are 66 enforcement officers.
Q101 Mr Dunne: Do you know on average
how much revenue an enforcement officer recovers?
Mr Bennett: Again, I have not
got that in front of me. I know they operate on effectively a
certain set of cases. I can get you the figure.[3]
Q102 Mr Dunne: Do they recover more than
their salary?
Mr Bennett: Oh, yes.
Q103 Mr Dunne: Why do you only have
66 of them if you have got nearly one million underclass vehicles?
Mr Bennett: That is a good question,
but they deal very specifically with the leads that we have given
to us, the reports that come to us from the police, local authorities
and so on. It is the enforcement officers who then try and chase
those down to collect the tax or make the prosecution stick, if
you like. There are 66 of them doing that. The other part of the
equation is we have to play across the board with a large volume
of activity and it is a value for money issue. We agree with the
VED Board where we spread the load across.
Q104 Mr Dunne: If they are recovering
more than it costs to employ them surely it would be worth considering
employing more.
Dr Hickey: The number has increased
from 41 to 66, so there has been quite a significant increase.
Q105 Mr Dunne: There are 43 police
forces in this country, so that is less than one and a half of
your officers per police force, which is not very many.
Mr Bennett: Going back to the
point I made, there is a limited amount of resource. It is a question
of what you can do here. As was said earlier, the number of reports
we have been getting has been dropping and at the same time we
have been increasing enforcement officers, so on a pro rata
basis there is not a huge pile of cases, if I can put it that
way.
Q106 Mr Dunne: Okay. If we look at
the police enforcement which you obviously rely on more than your
own officers, I have been in an ANPR vehicle and I have seen how
effective it is and I have seen the ping that comes through when
the vehicle is not taxed, and in my force it goes "Yabba-dabba-do",
the Flintstones' tune, and it is very exciting and it comes
within a second and a half of seeing the vehicle come up, so I
have seen how effective it is and I understand the resource constraint
on the external police vehicles which can go and pursue the offender.
How much incentive goes to the police in terms of a share of the
recovered revenue that you provide them in order to encourage
them to put more resource into this?
Mr Bennett: Not from us, it is
a cross-subsidy.
Q107 Mr Dunne: They do not get any
share of the recovered revenue. Do you provide any other sort
of incentive, such as funding any ANPR vehicles around the country?
Mr Bennett: No, but we do work
in co-operation with the police and we do joint ventures.
Q108 Mr Dunne: Yes, but you have
just told us you have only got 66 people doing that and that is
less than one and a half per force.
Mr Bennett: No, we have got our
ANPR vehicles and our wheel clamping vehicles. We work in corporate
terms with the police and pool resources between the police, local
authorities and ourselves.
Q109 Mr Dunne: Should you not consider
some kind of revenue sharing for effective enforcement?
Dr Hickey: The revenue from evasion
ultimately goes to the Treasury because we are collecting a tax
here, so I do not think we could divert that money.
Q110 Mr Dunne: You could discuss
with the Treasury whether that would not be an effective way of
reducing this very significant amount of evasion.
Dr Hickey: Yes. We work together.
Q111 Mr Dunne: Dr Hickey, I am sorry,
I have got limited time. Can I suggest to you that is something
you as a Department ought to pursue because it would help not
only in recovery of revenue but also reduction in offending and,
as we have heard, 75% of criminals have untaxed vehicles so it
would have a much wider benefit for society at large, I would
suggest. Could we turn to motorcycles for a moment. I have been
out with my police force and noticed the challenge that the police
have in dealing with motorcycle offences. I happen to have in
my constituency a couple of roads which bisect the constituency
which are well-known and well advertised motorcycle racetracks
to the West Midlands conurbation. ACPO rules of engagement prohibit
pursuit of motorcycle vehicles, is that correct? Can you confirm
that?
Dr Hickey: I do not know whether
it is a rule but, you are quite right, the police are very nervous
about doing that.
Q112 Mr Dunne: Well, they do not
do it. Consequently, any motorcycle that pings through ANPR is
essentially able to get away scot-free. Would you agree?
Mr Bennett: Essentially.
Q113 Mr Dunne: That seems to be the
case. That might explain why the evasion rates for motorcycles
are so much higher than it is for ordinary vehicles. Have you
considered taking measures which might have much more effect on
motorcycle owners, such as giving them points in the event that
they do not have a properly taxed motorcycle rather than just
a fining regime?
Dr Hickey: Can I say that we are
looking at a whole raft of possible issues which are essentially
policy changes and would require legislation. Amongst the options
or ideas that we are happy to pursue that is certainly one.
Q114 Mr Dunne: Could you consider
that. Can I give you another one that I would like you to consider
which is that many motorcycles, particularly in the area I have
witnessed for myself as a racetrack, have illegal racing exhausts
attached to the motorcycles which causes a great deal of noise
pollution to the residents along the roads that they use. These
are illegal and yet you are issuing them with VED certificates
despite the fact that they are operating illegal vehicles.
Mr Bennett: We will take that
one away.[4]
Q115 Mr Dunne: Can I suggest that if
the current measures to police this are ineffective you should
consider any motorcyclist who is caught with an illegal exhaust
should have points deducted from their licence and I think that
would deal with that problem overnight.
Dr Hickey: I am happy to look
at that.
Q116 Mr Dunne: Thank you. Could you
write back to the Committee and expand on that point. I have got
two more sets of questions. In relation to potential policy proposals
to use Vehicle Excise Duty as a means of encouraging the polluter
to pay, green taxation, and there seems to be growing cross-party
consensus that this is something that is likely to come, what
impact do you think having much higher rates of Vehicle Excise
Duty will have on evasion and your ability to prevent it?
Dr Hickey: Could I answer that,
Chairman. I think the question on the structure of VED, which
is what your point is about, is something not for us, it is something
for the Chancellor and it would be inappropriate in some ways
for us to comment.
Q117 Mr Dunne: I am not asking you
to comment on the policy, I am asking you to comment on if we
do have much higher rates of duty payable, given the difficulty
you are having already in collecting, what will that do to your
ability to reduce evasion and to collect such tax?
Dr Hickey: It would clearly depend
on the structure and the relevant incentives and it would depend
on whether you were lowering at the bottom end and increasing
at the top. If it was lower then hopefully that might reduce the
disincentives to pay, to put it that way, but if it was increased
at the top that could increase the disincentives. On the other
hand, the one at the top would be the larger machines, the more
expensive machines, where there are other reasons why they might
be illegal.
Q118 Mr Dunne: My final question
is a follow-up to the Chairman's and Mr Touhig's about your relationship
with the Post Office. Could you tell us what proportion of VEDs
are collected on-line?
Mr Bennett: EVL use is increasingly
coming up, take up is about 39/40% now on-line Electronic Vehicle
Licensing.
Q119 Mr Dunne: I am surprised to
hear that because my local post office had its ability to issue
VEDs removed. It was not his own choice; it was taken away from
them by yourself.
Mr Bennett: Sometimes it can be
taken away by the Post Office. What happens is they have to cover
a certain area with a certain number of post offices, and there
is an agreement we have with them to do that. I cannot remember
the number—I can write to you if you want—but we did
actually increase the number of post offices. We cannot give it
to all of them because it simply a) is not economic and b) the
skill and the expertise for the number of transactions would work
against us in terms of quality of documentation. [5]
3 Note by witness: On average £35k in
2006/07. Back
4
Ev 18 Back
5
Ev 18 Back
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