Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-99)
DEPARTMENT FOR
CULTURE, MEDIA
AND SPORT,
DIGITAL SWITCHOVER
HELP SCHEME
& DEPARTMENT FOR
BUSINESS, ENTERPRISE
AND REGULATORY
REFORM
MONDAY 10 MARCH
2008
Q80 Geraldine Smith: Can I ask a
little bit about the help scheme, whilst we have the opportunity,
I understand they are broadcasting today, so for people watching,
how will this help scheme work?
Mr Stephens: The help scheme will
provide practical assistance to people who are aged 75 or over,
or are disabled, qualifying for one of the disability allowances,
and it will provide practical advice on what you need to do to
achieve switchover. It will provide, if you want it, practical
assistance in your home from a qualified and accredited supplier
to actually fit and tune the equipment. It will not just provide
the basic set-top box, but if you need, for example, an aerial
upgrade, it will provide that, and it will also provide you with
information on alternative choices if you do not want to go with
the straightforward digital terrestrial options.
Q81 Geraldine Smith: Who will pay
£40? Who will pay a charge and who will not?
Mr Stephens: £40 is the basic
fee that the Government has set for the service. The assistance
being provided is worth significantly more than that. Those who
do not pay are those in receipt of either income-related benefits
or pensioner credit.
Q82 Geraldine Smith: How will that
information be made available to them? I have not seen that much
information myself about this, considering we are only a year
off in our area.
Mr White: When Digital UK write
to each home with a generic communication, the help scheme will
be mentioned, but we will also be starting more national campaigns
and more local and regional awareness, so we are just about to
kick that off. It is quite difficult for us, because eligibility
is by region, and what we do not want to do is get loads of people
now calling and engaging with us if they are switching, say, in
London, in 2012, so managing the process of communication is quite
tricky to get right, but I am worried too that awareness of the
help scheme is lower than I would like at the moment.
Q83 Geraldine Smith: But your bonus
will not depend on take-up, it will depend on customer satisfaction.
Mr White: And customer satisfaction
is about making sure that the eligible person has been able to
make the right choice at the right time, and therefore awareness
of the scheme is important.
Q84 Geraldine Smith: But if you were
really cynical, you could say that if you had fewer people to
deal with, you could make sure they got a really good service.
Mr White: Because it is customer
satisfaction for the eligible people, and what I do not want is
people who are eligible for help, who need help, not knowing about
it in time to get help and taking alternatives, so when we ask
them whether they were happy with how we communicated, they say,
"No, because we told you too late".
Q85 Geraldine Smith: So we can have
an assurance that you will make every effort to make people aware
of the help that is available?
Mr White: Completely.
Q86 Geraldine Smith: Because I think
that is crucial, and I think certainly at this moment in time
that information is not readily available for people.
Mr White: We could be doing more
than we are currently doing.
Q87 Geraldine Smith: It would also
stop them from buying analogue television sets if somebody tells
them quickly.
Mr White: Or making the right
choices.
Sir Brian Bender: Can I just add
in relation to Copeland that the local MP said, "It's been
a very positive experience. The communication and public information
campaign was the best I have seen." So in the one area we
have actually been live, that was the view of one of the two local
MPs.
Q88 Geraldine Smith: I hope that
continues. Can I say in my own area as well there have been some
problems with Winter Hill and there is talk of using a reserve
transmitter. Are you confident that that is going to work?
Sir Brian Bender: It is one of
the contingencies that, if we need to, we will use a reserve transmitter
and we are advised that is a straightforward process to do it.
As I said earlier, the experts in this area have looked at the
risks of delay and have decided that it is satisfactory to proceed
as scheduled. This is not something they just look at once. They
look at it regularly along the way and, in the event that that
risk increases, they would put out some advice that the timetable
was at risk, but at the moment they are firmly of the view that
it is satisfactory.
Q89 Geraldine Smith: One final question,
something that caused me a little bit of concern: people who live
in flats and will lose their television signal if landlords have
not upgraded communal television reception systems to receive
digital signals. What are you doing to persuade landlords to do
this work?
Mr Stephens: That is clearly an
obligation on landlords to upgrade their community provision and
they are part of the wider communications effort. In particular,
we have a number of engagements with both social landlords and
the private rented sector.
Q90 Geraldine Smith: What would be
the situation if a landlord decided not to, for any reason, maybe
because of cost?
Mr Stephens: That would be his
decision. As a result, his tenants would then either not be able
to receive digital or would have to make alternative provision
themselves, such as the receipt of satellite.
Q91 Chairman: Just a comment on Ms
Smith's point that right up to the changeover people will be able
to buy analogue TVs. We know, as I keep repeating, that 1.8 million
people bought them in the first seven months and of course, we
know that around five to ten per cent of households would need
to upgrade their aerials to receive terrestrial signals, which
will add between £60-£180 to the cost. So you have 180,000
people who in the first seven months of this year bought an analogue
TV which will be useless. That is a lot of money. I am surprised
you are not more concerned about this. I cannot think of any other
consumer product where people have not been told that they are
going to have to spend the best part of £200.
Sir Brian Bender: I am concerned
to make sure that consumers get the right advice.
Q92 Chairman: You are being a bit
slow on the uptake. We know from these paragraphs in this Report
that very large numbers—I have already read it out to you.
You know the figures. Very large numbers of shops are not telling
people.
Sir Brian Bender: That is something
that Digital UK are very much on the case on with their training
and—
Q93 Chairman: How long has this been
going on for? I will ask the BBC this.
Mr Stephens: If I may just comment,
it would be incorrect to say that the extra cost of an aerial
upgrade is dependent on whether or not people buy an analogue
television now. That is the result of the switchover from analogue
transmission to digital transmission. It is not affected by the
nature of the set that the householder has. So the extra cost
of conversion of that analogue set is the £20 to £30
that Sir Brian has mentioned.
Q94 Chairman: How many of these 1.8
million people are going to end up having to pay up to £200
then?
Mr Stephens: As I said, that is
not related to the purchase of an analogue television.
Q95 Chairman: How many?
Mr Stephens: That is a function
of the nature of their aerial and will happen whether or not they
purchase an analogue or a digital television.
Q96 Chairman: It is a bit vague.
Sir Brian Bender: We estimate
that around 10% of households may need an aerial upgrade but that
may be to do with age or condition of the aerial as well as whether
it is an appropriate one.
Q97 Dr Pugh: Can I ask you about
the estimates? I do not want to go over ground that has already
been covered, but it would appear to me that one thing this is
going to provoke is an enormous amount of disposal of electrical
goods and people will actually be throwing out equipment which
may probably have some life in and getting new equipment which
will cost them some money. I think you give a figure of costs
to the consumer of £3.8 billion and a benefit of £5.1
billion. Is it possible for you, not necessarily now, to give
the Committee a more accurate breakdown of what is involved from
the consumer's point of view?
Sir Brian Bender: Just on the
disposal issue, if I may, first of all, research that my Department
and Defra did in 2006 suggested that switchover was not expected
to result in any significant overall increase in TV or recorder
disposal. The question is where it happens and how it is managed.
It predicted a 1% increase in recorder disposal. That was what
happened in Copeland. I realised, Dr Pugh, that was only the first
part of your question but, as far as the disposal is concerned,
we believe that we have arrangements in place through collection
centres, local authorities, and indeed retail take-back schemes,
to ensure that that should not be a problem.
Q98 Dr Pugh: That is an astonishing
fact in itself. I am astonished that you have got a 1% disposal
factor. I am even more astonished that you have predicted it because
intuitively I would have thought an awful lot of people will cut
their losses, not want to have extra boxes hanging around the
place, and go out and buy a new telly, getting rid of the old
one and putting it in serviceable condition—
Sir Brian Bender: But a lot of
them are doing that day by day. I forget what the figure is but
several million TV sets are bought a year. The question is whether
that peaks massively in the run-up to switchover or whether people
are just preparing because when they buy they trade up.
Q99 Dr Pugh: So that consumers are
trading up now anyway rather than wastefully disposing of electrical
equipment that works, and digital switchover is not making much
of a difference to it?
Sir Brian Bender: So far, on the
basis simply of the one area where it has happened, which, as
Mr Stephens said, is a very small percentage of the population,
it did not make much difference to disposal.
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