Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-116)
HM REVENUE AND
CUSTOMS
7 NOVEMBER 2007
Q100 Mr Dunne: Mr Touhig also touched
on Lord Carter's review, looking at your on-line targets for on-line
returns. It is my understanding that Lord Carter is looking for
a universal on-line submission of returns by 2012. Is your target
to get 100% on-line returns by 2012?
Mr Gray: Following the Carter
Report we have got a whole range of different targets on different
timescales for the different products and taxes. They are at their
most aggressive in relation to large corporate customers. In relation
to individuals and smaller enterprises, they are on a steadier
timescale recognising the bigger challenges. Whether we will get
to 100% of on-line services of everybody by 2012, I am not sure
we will be quite there.
Q101 Mr Dunne: You told us that your
target was 35% by March 2008 and you have already achieved that
a year early. Do you have specific benchmarks for individual self-assessment
returns for each year running up to 2012?
Mr Gray: No, we do not at this
stage.
Q102 Mr Dunne: How far out do you
go?
Mr Gray: At the moment we only
have an explicit target which was set under the 2004 spending
settlement for the period up to March 2008. As we move forward,
as part of the target-setting process, we will be considering
and discussing with the Treasury whether we should extend explicit
quantified targets. As I say, we are feeling pretty pleased that
on that measure of our on-line services we are ahead of the current
target.
Q103 Mr Dunne: The present Comprehensive
Spending Review, which was published last month, does not include
specific targets for that.
Mr Gray: At the time of the Chancellor's
statement last month we published the broad areas under which
targets would be defined and set, but we still have not agreed
with the Treasury, and will not be publishing probably until next
spring, the precise measures which will feature in our targets
and indicators, but obviously this is one of the issues we will
be considering in that context.
Q104 Chairman: Why don't you set
a target for the accuracy and completeness of advice given by
enquiry centres—this is mentioned in paragraph 4.13 on page
25: "Staff at enquiry centres also seeks to resolve queries
... "—but as you do not measure their performance,
you will not know what is going on? How can you be confident they
are doing their job?
Mr Gray: I think we are trying
to measure their performance on the measure I was discussing just
now with Mr Dunne around our internal assessments of the quality
of responses being offered, so I think we are doing that. [4]
Q105 Chairman: Do you think you give
a good service to people with disabilities on your website, for
instance with reading difficulties?
Mr Gray: We are seeking to give
an increasingly good service. I think most large organisations,
ourselves included, have faced challenges around accessibility
for disabled customers and others. We are reasonably pleased with
the progress we have made but we know we have got a lot more progress
to make on that.
Q106 Chairman: If you are doing so
well, why does it state in paragraph 2.5: "We found it difficult
to find information about the service on the Department's website
and only 10% of the forms examined stated the availability of
large print or Braille"?
Mr Gray: Chairman, I said I thought
we were doing reasonably well—
Q107 Chairman: It does not sound
like you are doing at all well to me.
Mr Gray: — and that we had
a number of areas in which we needed to improve.
Q108 Chairman: For instance: "All
the Department's stationery states in large print the availability
of alternative formats", so if you can do it on the stationery,
why can you not do it on the website?
Mr Gray: We can do and that is
what we are putting in place.
Q109 Chairman: Are you going to do
it now?
Mr Gray: Not immediately, but
as part of our programme—
Q110 Chairman: It does not sound
very difficult to me.
Mr Gray: I think the range of
things we are doing cannot all be done overnight. They all attract
a cost label and we need to prioritise them. We quite accept,
and did do during the course of this study and in the report,
that we need to improve those things.
Chairman: "None mentioned the availability
of other formats", so I think there is a lot of work you
can do on this.
Q111 Mr Dunne: Do you keep a register
of complaints from members of the public?
Mr Gray: Yes, we do, but we are
just in the process of revamping our arrangements there to make
sure that across the Department as a whole we have a co-ordinated
view of complaints and, indeed, compliments, of which we get some,
and that we ensure we draw appropriate learning and lessons from
them. That is an area where we can do better than we have in the
past.
Q112 Mr Dunne: Has the level of complaints
been rising or declining since the development of contact centres?
Mr Gray: Off the top of my head,
I am not sure I can give you a figure back over the full 10-year
period or so. I have no sense that during recent years where the
amount of contact centre activity has been growing rather rapidly
we are facing an increasing trend of complaints. 5
Q113 Mr Dunne: Would you be able
to give us a quick note on the numbers of your complaints?
Mr Gray: Yes, we can certainly
do that.
Q114 Chairman: How much do you expect
to save by making more use of the Web? This is mentioned in paragraph
1.6, page nine, but it does not come up with any firm conclusion.
Mr Gray: Frankly, it depends on
how far we get in terms of shifting people on to using the Web
and on-line services. We are probably talking about the potential
for probably three figure millions of savings available, but we
are looking to adopt a measured approach to encourage people to
shift in that direction rather than moving towards aggressive
mandation that you cannot use other channels like the telephone,
our enquiry centres and so on.
Q115 Chairman: I strongly support
that. I find it wrong to force people on to the Web myself. That
is my personal view. Is it your view? I think it is from what
you have just said, more or less.
Mr Gray: Chairman, to force, those
are your words, I merely quote them back to you. I agree with
you on that. I strongly think that encouraging people to move
in that direction as long as they are able to do so is perfectly
reasonable.
Q116 Chairman: Polite encouragement?
Mr Gray: Polite encouragement,
which, of course, is our standard throughout.
Chairman: Yes, of course, the friendly
taxman! Mr Gray, Mr Lodge, thank you very much. It has been a
pleasure having you both.
5 Ev 15
4 Note by witness: It was subsequently established
that the accuracy and completeness of advice given by staff in
HMRC F2F Enquiry Centres is not included in the measure referred
to. In line with NAO's recommendation however, HMRC have now set
up a specific project to establish how they can further develop
the way they monitor and measure the quality, consistency and
correctness of advice provided by F2F advisers. HMRC expect the
conclusions and recommendations to from the project to be available
by March 2008 Back
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