Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-82)
DEPARTMENT FOR
WORK AND
PENSIONS AND
JOBCENTRE PLUS
31 MARCH 2008
Q80 Don Touhig: Is ethnic population
a factor?
Sir Leigh Lewis: Ethnic minority
population is a factor; levels of deprivation are a factor; levels
of worklessness are a factor; but—and it is something that
I just want to emphasise—there is no part of this country
where we do not provide considerable support and assistance. Every
Jobcentre Plus district in the whole of Great Britain has a set
of targets for getting people into employment.
Q81 Chairman: As you know, I am a
great enthusiast for international benchmarking, and we passed
over that quite quickly. A lot is going on in the United States
where unemployment rates in the black community is 8.4%. It has
always been a much more dynamic economy under any government than
here. Looking at Denmark, case study 3; there is an interesting
little project going on there: " . . . an independent institution
under the Ministry of Culture. Begun in 2003 the aim is to bring
immigrant women together with native-born women who have experience
in the labour market. Mentors and mentees are matched after interview
according to the mentee's needs and wishes." It is obviously
going quite well. What work are you doing to try to learn what
is happening elsewhere in the world?
Sir Leigh Lewis: We do try quite
hard actually to do that, and we are members of a number of international
organisations. We also very much encourage—and there are
some bounds in terms of cost and practicality—a culture
of learning from others. A delegation from my Department—or
a group of staff in my Department went fairly recently to Canada
to look at what they call their Service Canada Organisation and
the way they provide service right across Canada to the citizen.
We came back from that thinking that we can learn. I am absolutely
sure we can learn from others. Having said that, it is gratifying,
Chairman, how many visitors from abroad Jobcentre Plus entertains.
I think Chris Hayes at times thinks that he might just value just
one or two fewer people coming from abroad to learn from us, but
this is a two-way interchange!
Q82 Chairman: Thank you, Sir Leigh.
That concludes our hearing. Obviously, it is very disappointing
there is this stark inequality in employment rates. The employment
rate in ethnic minorities is only 60% compared with 74% in the
general population, as we know. It is not just some sort of employment
statistic. For instance, 19% of white people live in low-income
households against 56% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi people—so
I know you agree that this is a very worrying problem. Whilst
you are a highly competent witness, Sir Leigh, we want to see
some actions and you wielding this unwieldy department together
and I hope we will re-visit this in two or three years to see
what success Sir Leigh has had in ending this, frankly, flip-flopping
between different schemes, and inconsistency, which has not crowned
your efforts so far with any great success. Do you wish to have
the last word?
Sir Leigh Lewis: I certainly do
not want to have the last word just for the sake of it, Chairman,
but I do not accept the flip-flopping point. What I do absolutely
accept and share with you is that there is a real determination.
Can we just end on a positive note, if only from me? That gap
is still far too large and it is a blight on our society. You
believe that and I believe that. But it is smaller than it was
by a significant margin; it is reducing and the employment rate
of people from ethnic minorities is increasing, not least due
to the hard work and determination of the staff in my Department.
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