Examination of Witnesses (Questions 20-39)
DEPUTY ASSISTANT
COMMISSIONER JOHN
YATES QPM, MS
CARMEN DOWD
AND MR
ASKER HUSAIN
13 JULY 2006
Q20 Mr Prentice: You tell us that
three people have refused to be seen?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Yes.
Q21 Mr Prentice: What happens in
those circumstances? They refuse to be seen and that is it, or
what?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Well, you try and encourage them, you try and persuade them, I
have written to them several times to indicate that this is the
process, and at the end of the day unless I can exercise powers
of arrest, which I did not think I could do, and when I have discounted
the process, there is nothing I can do about it.
Q22 Mr Prentice: I am not asking
you to name names but are these peripheral people or are they
absolutely central to the case?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
It would have been very helpful to see them.
Q23 Chairman: Might you arrest them?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
If further additional evidence came to light to enable me to consider
that, yes, I would.
Q24 Mr Burrowes: On the decision
of arrest, are you saying the decision to arrest was predominantly
about, in terms of the evidence that you needed to gain, not necessarily
an interview but in terms of seizing documents. Is that the primary
reason?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
It is about the prompt and effective investigation of the offence.
It is about ensuring the best opportunity to get the best possible
evidence to build the best possible case.
Q25 Mr Burrowes: And in some ways
you would have said to Lord Levy's solicitor that that gives him
protection as well in terms of being formally arrested?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Yes.
Q26 Mr Burrowes: In terms of the
charges, you say you are 35-40% close to a charge without naming
an individual but, just to cover it, would you be able to specify
what that charge would be?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
No, and, as I say, I make it absolutely clear it can drop off
to nil per cent in terms of opportunity or it can climb dramatically,
depending on where the evidence takes us.
Q27 Mr Burrowes: And would it be
fair to say that charge would not necessarily just be to do with
the two offences that were mentioned but could be conspiracy?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
It could be.
Q28 Mr Burrowes: In terms of interviews,
how many interviews have been under caution?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Thirteen, I think.
Q29 Mr Burrowes: They have not been
witness interviews? They have all been suspects?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Two people have been arrested so they would have been interviewed
as well, so 13 people have been interviewed under caution without
exercising a power of arrest thus far, and 35 people have been
further interviewed, as in witnesses.
Q30 Mr Burrowes: And of those who
have refused to be interviewed, that is interviewed under caution?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
One was certainly. If Graham was here he would have it absolutely
spot on but I think one was certainly, I think two others simply
as witnesses, but often you can be interviewing someone as a witness
and they then become a suspect because of what they have said,
so you never know, in other words.
Q31 Mr Burrowes: And perhaps of that
one that was due to be interviewed under caution, obviously that
is classically a case of civil arrest?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Yes. That is being considered and at this stage discounted.
Q32 Chairman: Does that answer the
question that might have been asked about how many arrests we
think there might be still in the offing?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
I cannot say.
Q33 Jenny Willott: Can I just ask
about the things that Sir Gulam Noon was supposed to have said
in the media last week? Were they things that you were already
considering? You made a specific point that new issues that had
come up last week were not related to him. Were you already considering
that, or are you discounting what has been said?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Whilst he said it himself on record I am not sure I am in a position
to confirm or deny whether that is accurate or not, at the moment,
and I do not think it would be wise for me to do so, but there
are further matters in addition to that that have come to light
this week which are of great interest to us, separate to Gulam
Noon's disclosure on Saturday.
Q34 Chairman: But the question would
be, though, if that happened in the way it was described would
an offence have been committed?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
I do not want to speculate on that. It is a very broad question
on the basis of what was in The Times newspaper last weekend
and further reported. I do not think it would be wise for me to
try and say whether that is an absolute offence like that, not
at this stage. I just do not think I can say on the basis of what
was in the newspaper whether that is an absolute offence or not
because there could be a variety of reasons, a variety of quite
innocent reasons, why he was or was not, if he was, requested
to omit the information that has or has not been omitted, and
there could be some quite logical innocent explanations. On the
other hand, there could be some very sinister explanations.
Q35 Chairman: But what I am asking,
though, is even if the explanation was a dodgy one, that is to
avoid disclosure or embarrassment or whatever, I cannot see that
there is an offence there.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Well, let us examine all of it in the course of the investigation
and put up the papers to the CPS for them to consider.
Q36 Jenny Willott: You also said
that there were still people that you were hoping to interview.
How many more people are you expecting to interview at the moment?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
I have no idea. It becomes a diminishing number. As the inquiry
moves towards a conclusion the number of witnesses reduces, but
I can go and see a witness today which could cause me to see ten
further witnesses because of what that particular witness says,
for example.
Q37 Jenny Willott: What is the political
balance of the people you are still intending to interview? What
type of people are they?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
I have no idea.
Q38 Jenny Willott: The ones you still
have on your list, are they more party officials than civil servants?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
I do not want to comment on that, sorry.
Q39 Grant Shapps: Can I return to
this question of why now, or yesterday, or what was relevant about
the timing yesterday, because it did seem to many of us when you
knew you were coming in today, yet you are saying the things are
completely disconnected, and it is just a coincidence, is it?
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Yates:
Completely disconnected. As the investigation progresses clearly
very careful thought was given to the actual action we took—
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