Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-117)
SIR KENNETH
CALMAN, MR
JIM GALLAGHER
AND MR
DAVID MIDDLETON
11 JUNE 2008
Q100 Ms Clark: Would it be possible
for the Commission to keep us advised on that in terms of what
level of support and staffing are being allocated, both by UK
and the Scottish Parliament?
Mr Middleton: We have only preliminary
estimates of what we might need to spend on consultants, outside
assistance and what have you. We will certainly be keeping a record
of that and we can certainly keep the Committee up to date.
Q101 Mr MacNeil: Just to expand a
bit on the point Katy was making, will you just be looking at
the constituent parts of the UK that Katy mentioned or will you
look to expand further and maybe look for ideas in places like
Dublin, Oslo, Reykjavik, the Faro Islands, the Isle of Man, to
see what particular powers are working well for them. Will you
go around proactively or will you be waiting for people to come
to the Commission?
Sir Kenneth Calman: A lot of that
of course is already written up and particularly the group looking
at the financial side have had access to all of that already.
We have already discussed other models—the Canadian model,
the Australian model and other of the states around Europe, so
a lot of that data is already available and has been written up
by a lot of people, so we will have access to that.
Q102 Mr MacNeil: Does the Commission
plan to go anywhere outside the UK?
Sir Kenneth Calman: At this stage
the answer is no. If there was a particular reason to go then
we might.
Mr MacNeil: Come back of course.
Q103 Mr Davidson: How far does your
bus pass take you?
Sir Kenneth Calman: It gets me
to Brodick.
Mr MacNeil: As long as it gets you to
Stornoway.
Q104 David Mundell: But not to the
edge of independence.
Sir Kenneth Calman: The answer
is that we will take evidence from wherever we can but the group
in terms of the financial side of things, led by Anton Muscatelli
who is the principal at Herriott-Watt—they already have
strong links with all of these places, they know about the background,
this is not a new issue that has cropped up. I think, therefore,
we already have pretty good links to look at federal systems,
how financial systems work in Canada and Australia—Ireland
is a good example that is an interesting example as it happens—and
so we have got all of that data easily available. Unless there
was a very special reason for going somewhere I cannot see a particular
reason for that.
Q105 Mr MacNeil: How important is
that data do you feel in the Commission's work?
Sir Kenneth Calman: It is actually
quite an important part of what we do and unless this Commission
can look beyond Scotland to the wider ways in which Europe and
the wider world is developing—I have visited many of these
countries that we have just discussed for totally different reasons—then
we will be missing opportunities.
Q106 Mr Devine: Surely if you are
going to look at Ireland and devolved powers and so on, you would
have to look at the economy as a whole so you would then have
to look at things like it costs 85 euros to go and visit your
daughter, it costs 150 euros to go to an accident and emergency
unit—are you seriously telling us that you are going to
be producing a report that looks as broadly as that?
Sir Kenneth Calman: Not at all.
Q107 Mr Devine: What are you going
to be looking at then if you are looking at Ireland and other
countries?
Mr MacNeil: You are going to see the
credit unions in Ireland in two weeks time.
Sir Kenneth Calman: What I am
saying is that that part of the Commission that has got a particular
interest in the financial side of things already has a significant
amount of information available through the academics who will
be part of it, the list I gave you earlier to go through that.
I think you have gone just a little further than I would have
thought.
Q108 David Mundell: There is some
very interesting evidence that has been given to the Justice Committee
here in their review of devolution 10 years on and I would hope
that that is something the Commission is also following closely.
Sir Kenneth Calman: Yes, and we
have seen some of it already; indeed, Mr Gallagher is part of
the Ministry of Justice so that we have access to that when it
is necessary.
Q109 Mr Davidson: It is excellent
that the members of the Commission are not taking fees and I presume
that the members of staff are working for nothing and all of this.
Mr Middleton: Nothing extra.
Q110 Mr Davidson: Can I just remind
you that there is of course the House of Lords where who knows
what rewards might come in due course, just before we abolish
it.
Mr Middleton: Is that for the
staff?
Q111 Mr Davidson: We will certainly
bear that in mind now you have put it on the record, now you have
raised that. It is a question of the timing of this; is it your
aim to have your report just before the general election in order
that the issues can be discussed as part of that?
Sir Kenneth Calman: When is the
general election?
Mr Davidson: That is a good question.
Chairman: Only the Prime Minister knows
and he might have discussed it with him..
Q112 Mr Davidson: It would not be
appropriate for me to tell you just now. You are aware of the
general timescale for that and I was just wondering whether or
not you are consciously deciding that you want to get it out before
the general election or do you consciously want to have it after
the general election in order that a half-baked discussion does
not take place?
Sir Kenneth Calman: That is quite
a difficult one. My own view—to the regret of my colleagues
here—is that I would like it done faster rather than slower,
for a couple of reasons: it actually will allow a better discussion
and I hope that some of this will be available for discussion
and the interim report—if we can get something ready for
November or something like that—will set out the questions
more clearly. We might have a clearer discussion the next time
we meet because some of the questions that are there will allow
us to take evidence on some of these questions. I do not think
we will have answers by November but it might set it out more
clearly. Then, depending on how much is required, we will try
and get a final report. Some of that may still have to go beyond
that, that will depend on what the outcome is.
Q113 Mr Davidson: Can I just be clear,
you say that the interim report might very well identify options.
Sir Kenneth Calman: Absolutely.
Q114 Mr Davidson: On which you would
then seek consultation.
Sir Kenneth Calman: It then becomes
easier to have the kind of consultation that we have been talking
about. Just to ask "what do you think?" we know what
we will get with that, but if you have got one or two options
which make it slightly clearer then you can have a focused discussion
on some of these areas.
Q115 Mr Davidson: Just on this point
about giving options, the Chairman mentioned the question of nuclear
power; would it be a series of options, for example, about nuclear
power and then a series of options about something else or would
it just be a broad sweep, or have you not got to that stage yet?
Sir Kenneth Calman: Partly we
have not got to that stage yet. Nuclear power is an interesting
one because there are (a) nuclear power issues and (b) planning
issues, both of which are slightly separate, so I do not think
we have quite got to that stage yet. Some of these we will be
able to fairly readily put into a box and say there is no change;
some of these we will put into a box and say we think this really
should change and some of them we will put into a box and say
we do not really know, and that is the kind of discussion that
we might have in a group like this to give us some information.
That, I think, might help us to come to some conclusions as to
which of these is or is not more important.
Q116 Chairman: There are two issues
that I believe will be important issues, because it is important
that both the Scottish Parliament and the British Government work
together, one is nuclear power stations and planning and the second
of those issues that my colleague, David, has mentioned is local
income tax. There is a serious possibility of a clash between
the two governments on that one, with the British government saying
there is no council tax and no council tax rebate; secondly it
would be very bureaucratic to collect this local income tax. You
will be considering these issues in due time.
Sir Kenneth Calman: We will think
about that.
Q117 Chairman: Can I thank the witnesses
for their attendance. Before I declare the meeting closed would
you like to say anything in conclusion? Are there any areas that
we have not covered?
Sir Kenneth Calman: No, it has
been extremely helpful. Thank you very much for inviting me; I
hope you will invite us back again. If you have got information
that you would like us to look at, feel free to write in, we would
be more than pleased to have that.
Chairman: We would be happy to invite
you again.
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