Examination of Witnesses (Questins 360-375)
ANGELA EAGLE
MP
6 FEBRUARY 2008
Q360 Peter Viggers: Yes.
Angela Eagle: I am sorry if I
gave you the impression that we say to the ONS, "You know
that figure of 8%? We think it is nine and so it is going to be
nine." Clearly, the ONS figures are the figures that everybody
works from. We do not second guess them in that sense.
Q361 Peter Viggers: You start from
the ONS figures. Do you apply perhaps common sense revisions when
making your spending allocations?
Angela Eagle: Not in that sense
because the ONS will often produce a range. If you look at the
population statistics upon which the CSR settlement was based
in 2007, you will see that there is an upper and a lower range.
That was using the 2004 mid-year estimates. The newer estimates
came out just after the CSR process had happened and they demonstrated
that in all cases the ranges that had been assumed had not been
over-topped by the new figures. There is a range that we are given
for population projections, which is how the population application
is used in deciding on public expenditure commitments. It is not
a single figure; it is a range, from the lower to the higher end.
Q362 Peter Viggers: A different area.
The ONS told us that it has worked with the Home Office on the
e-borders system; what role has the Treasury had in those discussions?
Angela Eagle: Liam Byrne, who
is a Treasury minister as well because of his role in the new
border security forces being put together now, is really the connection,
and a pretty direct connection, between the Treasury and what
is going on with e-borders. He clearly keeps us in touch with
what is going on there; he is a minister in both departments.
Q363 Peter Viggers: Is that the answer
to the question as to what action the Treasury is taking to ensure
that the Home Office e-borders programme can provide robust population
estimates?
Angela Eagle: It is certainly
high on the agenda.
Q364 Chairman: Thank you, Peter.
Some final questions from me on the Statistics Board. Do you think
if it wanted to the Statistics Board has adequate powers to reform
population statistics?
Angela Eagle: I do not see why
not. If it had suggestions of different ways of counting or compiling
them, or it had some comments on how ONS were compiling them,
it could certainly make those public and the ONS could then decide
what to do about it. The issue here as well is that it is not
only national statistics, there are local statistics involved
here as well in making a reasonable compilation, but I am sure
that will be in their mind.
Q365 Chairman: I am just wondering
whether you felt they had adequate power in this area.
Angela Eagle: If they had a series
of suggestions that the ONS disagreed with I suppose they could
have some debate about it, but I would not see that there would
be any role for the Government to interfere in how those were
defined.
Q366 Chairman: Parliament continues
to take an interest in how the Statistics Board can be made sufficiently
accountable, which is an issue that will be familiar to you.
Angela Eagle: Yes.
Q367 Chairman: The House of Lords
Liaison Committee has recently supported the suggestion that there
should be a joint committee of both Houses; do you have a view
on that, as to how we can strengthen the accountability of the
Board to Parliament?
Angela Eagle: My viewand
obviously it is a matter for Parliamentis that the Treasury
Select Committee sub-committee (this committee) did an extremely
good job in its oversight of the ONS and the whole area of national
statistics. I do not think there is any reason why the Public
Administration Committee who look after the Cabinet Office where
the ONS is moving shortly should not do an equally good job. There
is only one joint committee really in existence at the moment
and that is the Human Rights Committee. It would cut across quite
a lot of the work that the select committees do ordinarily if
we were to establish another joint committee, it would not sit
with the select committee system that we have got. I do not think
that means that Sir Michael cannot get called to give evidence
to the Lords Economic Affairs Committee or any other committees
that wish to see him, but the logic of the shift to the Cabinet
Office is that the Public Administration Committee take on the
job that this committee has done since the ONS moved to the Treasury,
and done with great distinction in my view.
Q368 Chairman: It is kind of you
to say so, but that was not quite the view of your predecessor,
was it? During the passage of the Bill he implied that perhaps
Parliament should take a fresh look at it.
Angela Eagle: You asked me my
opinion on it; I have not talked to John Healey about what his
view was.
Q369 Chairman: All right. Your consultation
paper in December proposed limiting pre-release of information
to 24 hours, another issue that will be very familiar to you.
Angela Eagle: Very.
Q370 Chairman: Much shorter than
the current limit of five days but well short of our recommendation,
to which I think you were party, of three hours.
Angela Eagle: I think I was.
Q371 Chairman: Can you explain why
24 hours has now been suggested?
Angela Eagle: It was the length
of time the Prime Minister announced in his statement on constitutional
reform; I think we should try it and see how it works. We have
not even got to the Statistics Act coming into force which happens
in April, properly yet. I personally am reasonably relaxed about
these things but clearly the Government has a particular view
which I expressed during the passage of the Statistics Act. I
think we should see how it works; a reduction from five days to
24 hours is in the right direction, we should see how it works
and see what the effect of it is. On the other side of the argument,
ministers are expected to be able to have a fairly sophisticated
analysis of statistics when they are published. 24 hours is a
lot shorter than five days and we should see how that pans out
and take another look at it, as I am sure the Statistics Board
will, in due course.
Q372 Chairman: You said this has
been announced before the Statistics Act is fully in force; it
does seem odd therefore that the decision has been made by the
Government and not the new board and indeed without the advice
of the new board because the new board has not started.
Angela Eagle: There is a consultation
document out and we will look with interest at the responses that
come back.
Q373 Chairman: If the Board said
it was not at all happy with 24 hours you would look at that again,
would you?
Angela Eagle: The Prime Minister
has announced 24 hours, that is clearly the current government
position; we should look to see what happens with the consultation
document and it is not for me to anticipate what might be the
result of any decisions that come subsequent to that, but the
current position is that there will be a reduction from five days
to 24 hours.
Q374 Chairman: I understand that,
but are you actually consulting on that number or is that a final
decision for the moment?
Angela Eagle: I have not got the
text of the consultation document in my head but there is consultation
on this issue and if people have views about it then I am sure
they will express them in their response to the consultation.
Q375 Chairman: Thank you very much.
You have promised us a couple of notes at some point during the
afternoon.
Angela Eagle: I am sure a note
will have been taken of the notes I have promised and I will get
them to you as quickly as I can.
Chairman: Thank you very much.
|