The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mr.
Martyn Jones
Austin,
John
(Erith and Thamesmead)
(Lab)
Blizzard,
Mr. Bob
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Browne,
Mr. Jeremy
(Taunton)
(LD)
Cable,
Dr. Vincent
(Twickenham)
(LD)
Campbell,
Mr. Ronnie
(Blyth Valley)
(Lab)
Duddridge,
James
(Rochford and Southend, East)
(Con)
Eagle,
Angela
(Exchequer Secretary to the
Treasury)
Greening,
Justine
(Putney)
(Con)
Hollobone,
Mr. Philip
(Kettering)
(Con)
Ingram,
Mr. Adam
(East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow)
(Lab)
Pound,
Stephen
(Ealing, North)
(Lab)
Reid,
John
(Airdrie and Shotts)
(Lab)
Ryan,
Joan
(Enfield, North)
(Lab)
Swire,
Mr. Hugo
(East Devon)
(Con)
Syms,
Mr. Robert
(Poole)
(Con)
Truswell,
Mr. Paul
(Pudsey)
(Lab)
Mark Oxborough, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
Fourth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Wednesday 14
January
2009
[Mr.
Martyn Jones in the
Chair]
Travellers'
Allowances (Amendment) Order
2008
2.30
pm
The
Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Angela Eagle): I beg
to
move,
That
the Committee has considered the Travellers Allowances
(Amendment) Order 2008 (S.I. 2008, No.
3058).
It
is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Jones,
for the first time this year. The purpose of the order is to increase
the individual tax and duty free allowances for travellers entering the
United Kingdom from a non-European Union country. As a result of a
specific proposal to increase the value of the allowance for other
goods made by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer in 2004 and
revisions to the EC travellers allowance directive agreed
subsequently at ECOFIN in November 2006, the value was increased on 1
December 2008. As a result, travellers by air or sea bringing goods,
including electrical items, souvenirs, clothes and perfumes, into the
United Kingdom from outside the European Union saw their individual
allowance increase from £145 to £300 with a further
increase to £340 from 1 January
2009.
That
two-stage increase was due to the change in the value of sterling
against the euro between October 2007 and October 2008. Member states
that have not adopted the euro are required to calculate the exchange
rate conversion in October of one year and then apply the value from 1
January the next year. There are also several other changes to the
travellers allowance, such as a new allowance of 16 litres of
beer, which I hope will be welcomed widely by all members of the
Committee; an increase in the still wine allowance from 2 to 4 litres
and the removal of perfume
allowances.
To
introduce all the changes, the Travellers Allowances
(Amendment) Order was laid in Parliament on 28 November
2008. The instrument amends the Travellers Allowances Order
1994, and it came into force on 1 December 2008just
in time for the Christmas rush. The legislation implements Council
directive 2007/74/EC by setting down the new allowances and makes minor
amendments to the existing order. I hope that it will be widely
welcomed by the
Committee.
Mr.
Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): Can the Minister educate
the Committee by explaining how the figures and allowances were arrived
at? Who was consulted about them? Are the figures arbitrary or are they
based on a formula? If so, when are they due to be revised
again?
Angela
Eagle: Revisions are due. The directive requires revisions
every four years or at least a review, not necessarily leading to
revisions. The last time that the
figures were examined in any great detail to change their shape was in
1994. I summed up the changes between the old system and the new one
that has superseded it in my opening remarks. If the EU Commission
wishes there to be changes, it is a matter for it to make suggestions
to that effect. Member states can suggestas we did in
2004that some matters be looked at. Decisions must then be made
unanimously at ECOFIN. Those are the structures within which such
decisions will be made. I hope that the hon. Gentleman finds that
helpful.
I was just
about to commend the changes to the Committee. There is nothing
particularly controversial about them. I hope that they will be
welcomed, in that they are increases. I am happy to answer any
questions that hon. Members might have about the
detail.
2.35
pm
Justine
Greening (Putney) (Con): I welcome you to the Chair,
Mr. Jones. The order is likely to be welcomed by the
majority of the travelling public. It increases the value and amount of
goods that they can bring into the country from outside the EU without
paying duty or VAT on them, and it puts into effect the new higher
limits on goods that were agreed as part of the European Union
directive on the exemption from value added tax and excise duty of
goods imported by persons travelling from third countries.
Following the
Ministers opening statement about the specifics of the order, I
have a few questions that I hope she can clarify. My hon. Friend the
Member for East Devon has also raised some valid queries. First, I wish
to obtain clarification regarding the exchange rate. As the Minister
will be aware, the value of the pound has fallen significantly against
the euro, even since the October date when it was most recently
assessed. In fact, if we were converting the euro allowances into
pounds now, rather than having new limits of £340 on goods for
air and sea travellers and £240 on goods for non-air and non-sea
travellers, those limits would have increased to £389 and
£271 respectively. Effectively, if someone is travelling within
the EU area, they are suffering from the falling pound, and if someone
is travelling outside the euro, they are also facing a loss because of
what has happened to the pound. Will the Minister respond to that
point? It seems that it will be a full 12 months before what could be a
lower pound for some time is reflected in the allowances for British
tourists, who face a disadvantage compared with their European
counterparts.
The
order also makes a number of changes to the allowances for alcohol and
tobacco. The latter remains broadly unchanged, apart from the ability
now to make up the allowance from a combination of different tobacco
products. We welcome that because it seems a sensible change for the
public. On alcohol, there is a separate limit for beer of 16 litres and
the allowance for wine is up from the previous 2 litres, as the
Minister suggested. Will the Minister clarify why the allowances are
set at those particular levels? A further pointit is perhaps a
minor, technical one, but it is still worth mentioningis that
16 litres of beer is equivalent to just over 36 440 ml cans of lager.
If we were talking about 330 ml bottles, in which beer and lager is
often sold, there would be 48.48 of them. Although the
allowances are a round number, they do not quite work in terms of the
amounts of cans and bottles of alcohol that will be brought back into
the UK, and I wanted to flag that up.
I would also
like further clarification regarding the separate 60 ml allowance for
perfume and 250 ml allowance for toilet water, which have now been
subsumed within the general goods allowance. Will the Minister confirm
that that is effectively an unlimited millilitre allowance as long as
it stays within the increased monetary value? I also wanted to point
out to the Minister that the annexe transposition note
states:
There
is no change to the provision in the existing Order which prevents
under 17 year olds from the tobacco
allowances
or
any allowance for alcohol. Obviously, the age at which
people are able to buy cigarettes in this country has increased to 18.
Will the Minister comment on how she will reconcile those two issues? I
do not think that the Minister wants 17-year-olds to be able to bring
cigarettes into this country when having brought them in, they would
not be able to smoke them. It is appropriate for health reasons that
they are unable to do
so.
The
Minister said that there will be no impact on business, but can she
talk about what consultations have taken place with the travel industry
and, critically, with Her Majestys Revenue and Customs about
the processes that it might need to change to deal with the new
allowances? Can she say whether the Revenue feels the extra, higher
allowances mean there is any additional risk of smuggling? Finally,
will she say something about the impact on VAT receipts, given that we
now have a higher allowance? Previously, I presume, people had to pay
some form of VAT if they went over the allowance. If the Minister would
provide clarification on those points that would be very much
appreciated.
2.40
pm
Mr.
Jeremy Browne (Taunton) (LD): I am grateful for the
opportunity to contribute briefly to the deliberations. When I saw that
we were to discuss the travellers allowances order I thought
that it would be a far more controversial set of proposals than has
turned out to be the case. That is a relief to all of us as travellers,
rather than just those of no settled abode.
In her
opening remarks the Minister said that these changes were driven by the
relative values of the euro and pound sterling. For clarification, will
she confirm that were the pound to regain strength over the course of
2009, we would be back here in a years time reducing all the
allowances? Is it the case that these matters are not in our hands, as
the Minister is merely following European directives and is driven by
the relative exchange rate, or do we have discretion? If we do have
discretion, does that mean that if the pound were to regain some of its
value relative to the euro, the allowances would not automatically be
altered downwards to bring them back into line?
I would also
be interested to hear, because the Minister did not say and it was not
mentioned by the hon. Member for Putney, what the revenue implications
of these changes are. [Interruption.] The hon.
Lady says from a sedentary position that she did make that point. In
that case, may I repeat it? I would be grateful for the
Ministers response, not just on the exemption for perfume, but
also, as people are allowed to bring more generous amounts of alcohol
into the country presumably there will be a revenue implication,
although that may lead to some other behavioural change at the same
time.
An issue that
certainly was raised by the hon. Lady was the effect on smuggling. One
assumes that there would be a negative effect on smuggling. If people
had a greater ability legitimately to bring goods of this type into the
country, they would have less incentive to smuggle them, but I would be
interested to know the Ministers analysis of that
situation.
Finally, will
the Minister say what consultation has taken place? I represent a seat
in Somerset, and obviously people travel abroad and bring back alcohol
and other goods from abroad. However, if I represented a seat near a
major airport, for example, I might be anxious about the effect that
this would have on retailers, off-licences and small shops in the area.
It shows a strange lack of joined-up government that the Department of
Health seems to spend an inordinately large amount of time and money on
saying that we should drink less alcohol, with lots of adverts
extolling the virtues of drinking less alcohol, at the same time as the
Treasury is making it easier for people to bring alcohol into this
country for their own consumption, at much cheaper prices than they can
buy it in the United Kingdom.
I am unclear
how those positions are reconciled when there is a tax escalator on
beer. Someone who runs a brewery, either in my constituency or
elsewhere in the country, sees the tax on their beer production going
up year on year on year, which makes it hard for small pubs and
brewers. At the same time, people who might choose to buy a pint of
beer from that local brewery are being told that if they go on holiday
outside the European Union, they can bring back a bigger allowance of
lager and not be taxed on it, so traditional pubs and brewers are being
put at a disadvantage, as well as mixed messages being sent out on
public health. I can only assume that there has been extensive
consultation on this area and I would be interested to hear why this
was the outcome of that consultation.
2.44
pm
Mr.
Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I may be
geographically challenged, but I am struggling to think how one would
enter the United Kingdom except by air or sea. I accept that if someone
came on the Eurostar they would technically be on dry land all the way,
and I also accept that if they were coming from the Republic of Ireland
they could enter Northern Ireland by road, but I do not understand how
one could enter the United Kingdom from outside the European
Communitys value added tax or excise duty area, except by air
or sea. I may be a simple fellow, but I do not understand
that.
In paragraph
6 of the schedule to the order, however, under subsection (b) it
states:
Private
pleasure-flying or private pleasure-sea-navigation does not constitute
travel by air or sea for these
purposes.
I
am struggling to see why not. Further, why should there be a difference
in the monetary value attached to how one comes into the country? Why
should there be a difference of £100 for those who travel by air
or sea under the definition, but only £240 for other
travellers?
2.45
pm
Angela
Eagle: I will do what I can to answer the questions that
have been put. I shall begin with those questions that the eagle-eyed
hon. Member for Kettering has just asked. He is right to question which
routes
there would be into the country that are not by air or sea. He is also
right to spot that there is a small issue of private pleasure craft
there. However, this is a European Union-wide arrangement, which
applies equally to all countries. While we are an island, a large
number of other European Union member states have long land borders
with non-European union states.
Part of the
negotiation was to get an increase in travellers allowances for
those who come from non-EU states into the UK, which is what we were
trying to achieve from 2004 onwards, when it was mentioned in the then
pre-Budget report. We had to get the unanimous agreement of all
European Union member states to make any change. We wanted an increase
simply because we felt that the old limits were getting ludicrously low
and were not keeping up with modern habits of shopping and what was
available. However, in order to do that and to change the directive, we
had to have unanimity at ECOFIN. When matters go to ECOFIN, or to any
other combination of the Council of Ministers where there is unanimity
rather than majority voting, there has to be agreement from countries
in all situations. There was therefore a compromise to meet the worries
of those European Union states that have long land borders with non-EU
countries where goods might be quite cheap just over the border.
Consequently, it was agreed that there would be a lower limit for those
who brought goods in by land, in order to deal with the worries of
those member states. The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that we
are an island and that there are no land borders, long or otherwise,
with non-EU member states that apply to the UK. However, this directive
pertains to the whole of the European Union and therefore has to deal
with all eventualities. That is the explanation he sought.
I turn now to
the questions asked by the hon. Members for Putney and for Taunton,
particularly those about the exchange rate. Under the current system,
changes happen on 1 January of each year and are dependent on the value
of sterling against the euro in the October before. Therefore it does
not change weekly, daily, or monthly as it would be inconvenient to
have exchange rate changes that frequently for those countries that
have not joined the euro. The directive therefore says that a change
should be put into effect to reflect the exchange rate fluctuations,
but the way it is worked it out is that we look at the exchange rate in
October and we then apply any changes. There is a 5 per cent. cushion
either way, so if the exchange rate has changed up or down more than 5
per cent. there will be a recalculation of the amounts of cash that are
allowed in the travellers allowances for those who are coming
in from non-EU states.
The hon. Lady
pointed out that there has been a change in the value of sterling. The
change for the new levels was calculated in October last year and there
have since been further fluctuations in the exchange rate. Those will
not be taken into account until October this year, when we can check
whether the 5 per cent. level either way has been breached. That will
have implications for the cash level of the allowances that will come
into effect in January 2010.
The hon.
Member for Taunton was slightly confused and mixed up two issues. We
are not debating those
changes, but rather the renegotiation of the amountssomething
that has been going on now for four years. That is sometimes how long
it takes to get the European Union to look at long-standing directives.
At the end of 2006, an agreement was reached at ECOFIN that it was
desirable to increase the amounts permitted for travellers coming from
non-EU countries. As the hon. Gentleman will know, there is a different
system for people who travel within the EU, where the amounts that can
be brought across borders are unlimited if they are for personal use,
but require payment if they are for commercial use. I would not like
him to mix up the two things. The changes before us are not only about
an increase in the overall amounts and the changes that I mentioned in
my remarks, but also about the revaluation due to sterling. Those are
two separate things.
The hon. Lady
asked about cigarette allowances. Because travellers allowances
are laid down in European Union legislation, they must be followed by
all member states. Anyone over 17 years of age is entitled to
allowances of alcohol and tobacco under the directive, although
individual member states must determine their own rules about the sale
of tobacco and alcohol products on domestic territory, taking into
account their own views on social and health issues. The hon. Lady is
rightwe take a firm view on such matters, particularly on
tobacco. However, anyone over 17 years old will be entitled to
allowances for alcohol and tobacco as that is a matter of European
Union law. It is a compromise figure; there are many different age
limits in the member states and that figure was decided on when the
directive came into effect.
Hon. Members
asked about consultation. During the negotiations about some of these
changeswhich people will realise were quite
protractedofficials discussed the issues with a number of
external stakeholders, to keep them abreast of what was likely to come
out of negotiations at ECOFIN and with the Commission. The European
Commission also held consultations with stakeholders at EU level when
preparing its original proposal, which was to increase the rates.
Consultation has taken place across the whole
process.
Justine
Greening: My final question concerned the impact on tax
revenues. Will the Minister address that issue before she sits
down?
Angela
Eagle: We do not expect the impact on revenues to be very
great either way. The increase on beer, for example, has simply shifted
it away from what used to be other goods, and given it its own
category. The impact is quite minor in the scheme of things. Perhaps
people wonder why perfume and eau de toilette have been deleted
altogether and put into the category of other goods. That is simply
because, as everyone will be glad to hear, there has been a massive
shift in the European Union away from charging excise duty on
perfumeexcept in Belgium apparently, and I leave hon. Members
to draw their own conclusions about that. We do not expect the revenue
implications of the changes to be significant either way.
Question
put and agreed to.
2.54
pm
Committee
rose.