The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mrs.
Joan Humble
Bacon,
Mr. Richard
(South Norfolk)
(Con)
Brennan,
Kevin
(Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet
Office)
Cruddas,
Jon
(Dagenham)
(Lab)
Curry,
Mr. David
(Skipton and Ripon)
(Con)
Davidson,
Mr. Ian
(Glasgow, South-West)
(Lab/Co-op)
Engel,
Natascha
(North-East Derbyshire)
(Lab)
Fabricant,
Michael
(Lichfield)
(Con)
George,
Andrew
(St. Ives)
(LD)
Grogan,
Mr. John
(Selby)
(Lab)
Hain,
Mr. Peter
(Neath)
(Lab)
Hurd,
Mr. Nick
(Ruislip-Northwood)
(Con)
Leigh,
Mr. Edward
(Gainsborough)
(Con)
Lucas,
Ian
(Wrexham) (Lab)
Ruane,
Chris
(Vale of Clwyd)
(Lab)
Simpson,
Alan
(Nottingham, South)
(Lab)
Willott,
Jenny
(Cardiff, Central)
(LD)
Mark Etherton, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
Fifth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Tuesday 20
January
2009
[Mrs.
Humble in the
Chair]
Draft
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (Disclosure of Pupil
Information) (England) Regulations
2009
10.30
am
The
Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Kevin Brennan): I
beg to move,
That the
Committee has considered the draft Statistics and Registration Service
Act 2007 (Disclosure of Pupil Information) (England) Regulations
2009.
I think that
this is the first time that I have served under your chairmanship,
Mrs. Humble, and it is a great pleasure to do so.
The
regulations are the first use of the data-sharing power under the
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007. They are part of
a wider programme of workthe migration and population
statistics improvement programmeundertaken by the national
statistician that seeks to address the problems faced by local
authorities when they estimate highly mobile populations, taking into
account short-term migration, which I am sure many hon. Members have
come across. Access to the administrative data that are collected and
held by a number of Departments will be essential if the Office for
National Statistics is to meet increasing demand for new and improved
population and migration
statistics.
The
Government are committed to helping to improve the accuracy of the
population estimates produced by the ONS, particularly at a local
level, to underpin the correct funding of local government, NHS and
other public services. Local and central Government need accurate
information on migrant numbers and overall changes to the size and
structure of the population for resource allocation, and the planning
and delivery of local services. Long-term public expenditure planning,
including the calculation and distribution of formula grant to local
authorities, and resource allocation to the Department of Health and
the Department for Children, Schools and Families, are both dependent
on population
statistics.
Michael
Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): The one concern that my
constituents would have is that the data sharing in the measure is
epidemiological, as it were, in that it involves general data and
numbers rather than personal data regarding individual schoolchildren.
Will the Minister give me an assurance that that is not what is
intended by the regulations?
Kevin
Brennan: I can give such an assurance to the hon.
Gentleman. The statistics are already collected by Government, but the
ONS is not allowed to use them for the purpose of helping with
population and migration estimates, because they are generated under
the Education Act 1996 and subsequent Acts. The regulations allow
the ONS to use information that is already collected and available to
give a better estimate of population, and for that purpose
onlythe information is not for any general use elsewhere. The
measure is tightly drawn, and the ONS is extremely aware of the need to
use the statistics for the purpose that Parliament will, I hope, today
allow.
The ONS has
evaluated the content of the school census, and identified the
information that it needs for essential research and methodological
work on population and migration statistics. The regulations will allow
the DCSF to share the information with the ONS, including, to elaborate
for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman, pupils names, birth
dates, addresses, ethnicities, spoken languages, and dates of joining
and leaving schools. Access to those specific data will enable the ONS
to evaluate estimation procedures and, if necessary, to develop new
approaches for the derivation of migration statistics, population
estimates and
projections.
The
expected benefits of the measure before us include: better information
on local populations, including areas with high rates of population
turnover, of which I am sure the hon. Member for Cardiff, Central is
aware; better information on estimates of numbers of migrants; improved
accuracy of mid-year estimates and projections of population; improved
enumeration strategies for the 2011 census; better assessments of
coverage of the 2011 census, which will lead to better estimates;
development of research into the use of administrative data in updating
population statistics without a traditional census; and improved
resource allocation, policy formulation, and planning and delivery of
services.
When
collecting the school census, the DCSF gives a fair processing notice
to parents, which means there is in effect a privacy policy for the
data they collect. It already states that the information from the
school census may be shared with other Departments, including the ONS,
for statistical and research purposes. At present, that covers only
education statistics. The regulations are designed to make it possible
for the ONS to use that data to improve migration and population
statistics as well.
Chris
Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Will the regulations cover
internal migration? I am thinking particularly about seaside towns with
large numbers of caravan parks and houses in multiple occupation, where
vulnerable children move from inner cities and towns. They stay in
caravan parks and HMOs. Getting the ONS statistics from those types of
dwelling is very difficult, particularly caravan parks. Once the
information is collected, will it be sent to the relevant Departments?
Will the information go to the Treasury so that those children and
their families are counted as far as funding for local government is
concerned?
Kevin
Brennan: It will not be distributed around Departments,
but it can be used by the ONS to produce the sort of statistics that
could be useful to Departments and local government for those very
purposes. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The measure is designed
to help improve population estimates for the more mobile population
that we have these days, including in areas such as his constituency,
where people live in caravan parks and move around. It will give a more
realistic estimate than we can get every 10 years with a census,
for example, or with other information that the ONS already uses such as
general practitioners registration, which can be quite unreliable. It
will add a further layer of information, which will assist the ONS in
producing better population and migration
statistics.
Todays
order applies to England, but my hon. Friends constituency is
in Wales. In future, the ONS will come forward with a similar order for
Wales, and it will have to go through this House to be enacted. Wales
is not included in todays order, because there is a different
method for collecting school census data in Wales. However, there will
be a further measure in due course which will assist the Welsh Assembly
Government to do a similar thing with school census data in
Wales.
Chris
Ruane: May I make a further suggestion about how
Departments may feed into the ONS? Since 2005, the Department for
Communities and Local Government has collected statistics on the number
of out-of-county placements for vulnerable adults and children. It has
recorded the number of such individuals placed outside the county but I
do not believe it has recorded their destination. If that destination
were recorded, it could be fed into the ONS and it would show whether
there was any social dumping from inland authorities to seaside towns.
Each authority might say that it was sending only 50 vulnerable
children to Rhyl, but if 10 or 15 authorities send children to Rhyl or
to other seaside towns, they usually send them to the same ward, the
same caravan park and the same HMO, which is not in the best interests
of those vulnerable children. It might be good for the social services
department and for the slum landlord or the caravan park owner, but it
is not in the best interests of those
children.
Kevin
Brennan: My hon. Friend has been assiduous in pursuing
statistics issues to make sure that they accurately reflect his own
constituency and the movements of population and the services that are
required in such a constituency, which contains a seaside town and a
mobile population. I am sure that his comments, which range a bit wider
than this order, will be noted by the appropriate officials at the ONS
and at other Departments. To re-emphasise the point that emerged from
his earlier intervention, provided that children are in schools they
will be counted for the school census. As I said, there is a slightly
different system in Wales from the one in England. The measure will
allow internal movements to be better understood, because access to
details of addresses and so on will be available to the ONS from the
census. To reassure the hon. Member for Lichfield further, the
information will be used only for statistical purposes. No individual
data will be used to take action in any way with regard to any
individual. I hope that he finds that helpful.
Data
confidentiality and security arrangements are being assessed as a
fundamental part of the preparation of the data-sharing agreement
between the two Departments. The ONS and the DCSF will put the
necessary measures in place to protect this data and to avoid
disclosure of any private information about individual children. The
ONS and the DCSF already work to tight confidentiality guidelines, with
excellent data security records. I hope that the Committee will support
these regulations, which will help improve the accuracy of the
ONSs migration and population
statistics.
10.41
am
Mr.
Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): This is definitely
the first time I have spoken in Committee under your chairmanship,
Mrs. Humbleit is a memorable career milestone. I am
sorry that the Ministers memory bank was so fuzzy on that
score.
The Minister
read out a fairly passionless brief, which was designed to numb the
senses. The truth is that we are discussing something quite important
this morning: the legislative basis for Government Departments to share
personal data about every child in England as a first step. That will
worry a lot of people. If the Minister were to come to Ruislip on a
Saturday morning or, I dare say, to Lichfield, and ask, How
comfortable are you about the Government sharing personal data about
your child? The answer would be, Not very,
followed by the question, Why is this absolutely
necessary? The honest answer from Government would be,
Because we failed.
We are here,
because the 2001 census has failed properly to measure the population,
and because we cannot get an accurate picture of migration impact, as
the Ministers speech made clear. The root of that problem is
Department and policy failure. The Department is the Home Office, which
is still reeling from its being famously described by a former Labour
Home Secretary as not fit for purpose. The policy is
the migration policy, described recently by the Governments own
Communities Secretary as a free-for-all.
The task of
measuring migration impacts is hard enough, but under this Government
it has proved impossible. I know that this is not the place to discuss
migration policy, but the point that I am trying to make is that we are
discussing the granting of a big freedom to Government in relation to
the handling of data about our children. People are entitled to ask
whether it is worth the additional risk to personal freedom and
securitysharing increases riskif the Government are not
going to learn from the failures of the past and do something about the
root problem, which is the difficulty of measuring uncontrolled
immigration.
The question
on most peoples lips is, Will this make any
difference? The answer is important, because as the Minister
said, the accuracy of the census matters because money follows it, and
because it guides decisions on how resources are allocated by central
Government to local authorities, and by local authorities in the
communities that they serve. When data are wrong, it leads to big
problems and stokes resentment. I know that from my own borough of
Hillingdon, where there is cross-party consensus that the official
numbers which drive the central grant systematically underestimate the
impact of Heathrow airport on the number of people living in Hillingdon
and requiring public services.
It is clear
that this is a nationwide problem. That comes through most clearly in
the Treasury sub-Committee inquiry, Counting the
population, which received 24 submissions from local
authorities and councils, arguing that the UK was not measuring
population changes well at a local level. The Local Government
Association submission cites case study after case study of councils
that cannot recognise their own communities in the statistics presented
by the ONS: Newham, Manchester, Leicester, Westminster and Slough all
reported
serious under-counting in the official statistics. In the case of
Slough, the matter was so serious that the town organised a lobby back
in 2005, arguing that under-counting of the population would cost
£7 million to £8 million over three years, which is
equivalent to a 19 per cent. increase in council tax.
The Treasury
inquiry stated Professor Martins view that
such
demonstrably inaccurate basic population counts could call into
question the entire edifice of resource allocation decisions,
target-setting, prevalence rates and area profiles which were
essentially reliant on such key population
data.
We
therefore have a problem, to which we are told that the regulation
before us is part of the solution. As the Minister said, it is
ground-breaking regulation and the first use of regulation-making
powers in section 47 of the Statistics and Registration Service Act
2007. It is possibly the first step on a journey that will give the
Statistics Board access to more personal data held by other
Departments. Given public concern about increasingly big and intrusive
government, the erosion of civil liberties and personal freedoms and
the cavalier incompetence with which Whitehall has handled personal
data in recent years, it is worth pausing and asking a few questions
that the public might wish to ask.
First, why
will the regulations make such a difference? Are they a must-have or a
nice-to-have? Why is the information essential for work on improving
population statistics? The Minister used the word,
essential, and it is in the explanatory memorandum. Are
these regulations the first because they are the most important? Are
there more regulations to come? Secondly, as my hon. Friend the Member
for Lichfield asked in his opening questions, what information will be
shared? In this party, we have a principle that we cannot see any
reason why personal details should be collated that are not strictly
necessary for census information. Is that the Governments view?
The regulations appear to confine the information being shared to name,
date of birth, gender, ethnicity, address and school address, but the
explanatory note uses the phrase such as with that
list, which prompts the question whether other information might be
sought. I would be concerned, for example, if the measures extended to
religion, academic results, behaviour, health, police records and so
on. Will the Minister confirm on the record that the boundaries are
exactly those set out in the statutory instrument and that there will
be no mission creep from that
point?
Thirdly,
what are the controls on how the data will be disclosed? Particularly
disturbing is the explanatory note to regulation
6:
Personal
information may only be disclosed by the Board if it is under a
statutory or Community obligation to do so.
Considering
that section 11(2) of the Children Act 2004 imposes a duty
to share information for the purpose of safeguarding and promoting the
welfare of children, and section 2 of the Local Government Act 2000
gives each local authority the power to do anything that promotes the
economic, social and environmental well-being of its area, is the
Minister not concerned that such data could be shared by administrative
law quite freely and
widely?