The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Christopher
Fraser
Browne,
Mr. Jeremy
(Taunton)
(LD)
Cable,
Dr. Vincent
(Twickenham)
(LD)
Challen,
Colin
(Morley and Rothwell)
(Lab)
Cox,
Mr. Geoffrey
(Torridge and West Devon)
(Con)
Davidson,
Mr. Ian
(Glasgow, South-West)
(Lab/Co-op)
Duddridge,
James
(Rochford and Southend, East)
(Con)
Gauke,
Mr. David
(South-West Hertfordshire)
(Con)
George,
Mr. Bruce
(Walsall, South)
(Lab)
Gibson,
Dr. Ian
(Norwich, North)
(Lab)
Jack,
Mr. Michael
(Fylde)
(Con)
McCartney,
Mr. Ian
(Makerfield)
(Lab)
Michael,
Alun
(Cardiff, South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
Pound,
Stephen
(Ealing, North)
(Lab)
Tami,
Mark
(Alyn and Deeside)
(Lab)
Timms,
Mr. Stephen
(Financial Secretary to the
Treasury)
Young,
Sir George
(North-West Hampshire)
(Con)
Ben Williams, Eliot Wilson,
Committee Clerks
attended
the Committee
Fifth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Tuesday 24
March
2009
[Christopher
Fraser in the
Chair]
Draft Guardians Allowance Up-rating Order 2009
4.30
pm
The
Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen
Timms): I beg to move,
That the Committee has
considered the draft Guardians Allowance Up-rating Order
2009.
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenient to consider the
draft Guardians Allowance Up-rating (Northern Ireland) Order
2009 and the draft Tax Credits Up-rating Regulations
2009.
Mr.
Timms: I bid you a warm welcome to the Chair,
Mr. Fraser.
Tax credits,
together with child benefit, deliver financial support to the vast
majority of families with children in the UK and are important in
addressing child poverty. With many families currently facing difficult
times, the benefits of the flexibility in the tax credits system are
particularly important. If a familys income is reduced by cuts
in overtime or reduced working hours or working days, they may well
benefit from increased tax credits that provide support in those
circumstances. Between April and December last year, more than 400,000
households received extra tax credits following a reduction in income,
which in the current circumstances is obviously particularly important.
The orders and regulations before the Committee today will increase
some elements and thresholds for tax credits and raise the
guardians allowance, and in my view they are compatible with
the European convention on human rights.
I will turn
first to the draft Tax Credits Up-rating Regulations 2009. Tax credits
ensure that work pays and tackle child poverty. Overall, nearly 6
million families, containing almost 10 million children, are benefiting
from them. The regulations bring forward from April 2010 to
April 2009 the Governments commitment to increase the child
element of the child tax credit by £25 above
indexation. Added to the existing commitment to up-rate the child tax
credit, as set out in last years Budget, that means that the
child element will increase by £75 above indexation to
£2,235 from April 2009. Since its introduction in April 2003,
that element will have increased by £790.
As a result
of that increase, along with increases in working tax credits and the
national minimum wage and other changes that have been announced, a
family with two children and a single earner working full time on the
national minimum wage will receive about £10 extra a
week in tax credits compared with the previous year. Other rates and
thresholds are also increased by the regulations: the disabled element
of child tax credit and most of the other working tax credit elements
increase in line with
prices.
Turning
to the guardians allowance
orders
Sir
George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): Before the
Minister moves on, will he explain why the annexe to the explanatory
notes for the regulations shows that the normal family element and the
baby addition family element have not been increased at all? Will he
also confirm whether the second income threshold shows that people with
£50,000 a year are still entitled to tax
credits?
Mr.
Timms: Yes, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right
to say that not everything to do with tax credits is being raised.
Given constrained resources, we have to find the right balance between
supporting families with children across the income range and targeting
support on families with lower incomes. Raising the child element, as
set out in the regulations, allows us to do that, whereas the family
element is available over a much broader range of income. He is right
in saying that households on £50,000 benefit from tax credits,
and at the upper part of that income range it is from the family
element.
Mr.
Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): The Minister indicated that
the percentage increase in inflation has guided the changes in working
tax credit, but will he explain for the Committees benefit why
the child element in the child tax credit rises by 7 per
cent.?
Mr.
Timms: Indeed; in the pre-Budget report, my right hon.
Friend the Chancellor announced an additional £25 in the child
element, building on the announcement made at the time of the Budget
last year of an additional £50 beyond indexation. The right hon.
Gentleman is absolutely right in saying that we are making a
substantial increase in the child element of the tax credit system. We
want to give additional help to families with children at what we all
know is a difficult time in the economy. We are therefore making a
substantial increase in that element, and I suggest that that is the
right thing to do, particularly given our commitment substantially to
reduce child poverty
further.
On
the guardians allowance, the rates will increase in line with
prices to £14.10 a week from April this year. Normally, we would
have debated that in conjunction with the child benefit orders, but we
brought forward the increase in child benefit from April to January, so
we debated that order before Christmas. However, were unable to have
the debate on the guardians allowance at that earlier time. A
family with two children will have gained £24 from the increase
in child benefit being brought forward in that
way.
The
increases introduced by these instruments will deliver still more
support in the coming financial year. We remain committed to the
eradication of child poverty, and the child element is a particularly
effective tool for addressing that. Tax credits more broadly will
remain key. As a result of all the changes to the personal tax and
benefits system since 1997, families with children in the least
well-off fifth of the population will be £4,400 a year better
off. I commend the regulations and orders to the
Committee.
4.37
pm
Mr.
David Gauke (South-West Hertfordshire) (Con): It is a
great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time,
Mr. Fraser. I thank the Minister for introducing the orders
and the regulations. I shall start
by asking some questions, bearing in mind the points that have been
raised by my right hon. Friends the Members for North-West Hampshire
and for Fylde. I am fortunate to have such distinguished support today,
and I thank the Whips for
that.
Various
elements are being up-rated, but the Governments thinking
behind the different elements is not always clear to members of
Committees such as this. Some elements are up-rated by earnings, some
by prices and some not at all. The way in which the various elements
are changed seems to vary from year to year. For example, the working
tax credit first income threshold was increased considerably last year,
by £1,200, which was proportionately a much bigger increase than
that for the child tax credit last year. However, there is no increase
for the working tax credit this year, but there is a 7 per cent.
increase for the child tax credit. The disabled child element is
up-rated this year by more than the increase in prices, but in previous
years it has been up-rated in line with prices.
My right hon.
Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire highlighted one area in
which there is some consistency. The family elementthe normal
element and the baby additionhas not been increased, and nor
has the second income threshold. Indeed, that has been the case since
2003-04. The Minister has attempted to explain that point, particularly
in regard to the family element, but, for the Committees
benefit, will he elaborate on why, for example, it was considered
necessary to increase the disabled child element by more than prices
this year but not in previous years? Will he elaborate also on the
relative significance of the working tax credit last year as compared
with this year? It would be helpful if we knew the factors that
influence the Treasury when it makes those decisions
annually.
I also note
that the explanatory memorandum on the tax credits up-rating states
that, in the last pre-Budget report in November, the cost was estimated
to be £1.77 billion. That is less than the cost of
the previous years up-rating, but the Minister said that many
people are experiencing difficult times, and, given that a lot has
happened to the economy since last November, I should be grateful if he
were to state whether the Government still consider the PBRs
estimated up-ratings cost to be accurate. If it is not possible to
provide an answer now, will it be possible to provide one when the
Budget is delivered in
April?
It is worth
askingparticularly today, when figures show that inflation has
not fallen as much as was widely anticipated but the retail prices
index was down at 0 per cent. and is expected to fall
furtherwhat would happen in the event that either RPI or
earnings went negative? Are the Government committed to ensuring that
there are no reductions in thresholds or amounts regarding any element
of tax credit up-rating next year, given that many such elements are
based on either prices or earnings? Given that the consequence of these
tax credit regulations will be an additional £1.77 billion of
public expenditure, it is appropriate to ask the Minister about its
impact on reducing child poverty. He referred to it, so is it still the
Governments target to halve child poverty by 2010? If so, do
they accept that the target will be missed? Last week, the Child
Poverty Action Group stated why it believes that the target will be
missed by about 700,000 children, so does the Minister accept that the
target will not be met, whatever progress may be made as a consequence
of the provisions that we are debating?
Another
concern is the figures for take-upspecifically take-up of
working tax credit for families without children. The latest available
figures are for 2005-06, and for working families without children the
central estimate is that take-up is only 22 per cent. by case load and
just 28 per cent. by expenditure. Have there been any
changesany progressin that
area?
The
Chairman: Order. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that he
must keep his comments and questions in line with the order that is
before us this afternoon?
Mr.
Gauke: Thank you, Mr. Fraser. I do not intend
to dwell on this point, but I asked that question to establish whether
the additional expenditure that we would be approving in the order
would be effective in reaching those who have been hit hardest, which
is clearly the Governments intention.
The Public
Accounts Committee published its review of tax credits today, in which
it highlighted its concern about the high level of overpayment. If we
authorise this additional expenditure, I am sure that we will want to
ensure that money will get to the right people and that there will not
be unnecessary overpayments or underpayments. The Public Accounts
Committee is concerned that the system is not as effective as it might
be, and that overpayments continue to affect too many people1.3
million families in 2006-07. I acknowledge that annual overpayments
have been reduced from £1.9 billion to £1
billion, but that level is still higher than the £750,000
originally envisaged by the Government. I would be grateful if the
Minister touched on that briefly and explained the extent to which the
reduction has been achieved through improved administration of the tax
credit system. Has there been improvement as a consequence of the
measures announced in the 2005 Budget, particularly the increase in the
disregard from £2,500 to £25,000? I note that the figure
for the tax credits up-rating regulations has remained at
£25,000 for next year as well.
The Public
Accounts Committee has also raised its concern that there has been
little progress on underpayments. Does the Minister accept that? What
measures will be introduced to address that issue? Also, does he accept
that about £4.3 billion of overpayments is still to be
recovered?
The
Chairman: I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are
discussing a particular order. If he would keep his remarks in line
with the order, rather than drifting from the point, I would be most
grateful.
Mr.
Gauke: I am grateful for that, Mr. Fraser. I
raised the issue of child poverty because the Government have
highlighted, in the explanatory memorandum, the fact that tax credits
are part of their commitment to tackling child poverty. That is why I
wanted to analyse whether they are making progress on that; I thought
it might help the Committee. However, I take your comments on board and
will comply with them.
I note that,
according to the Public Accounts Committee report, a ministerial
colleague of the Minister, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, was
a member of that Committee. As such, I am sure that she is associated
with the report and that the concerns raised in it will have been
brought to his attention.