The
Chairman: Order. This is not the debate in which to
discuss that matter. Will the hon. Gentleman please get back to the
subject of the legislative
programme?
Albert
Owen: I always adhere to the guidance of the Chairman, and
I am not in a position to qualify it, but nor, it appears, is anyone
from the Conservative
party.
Mr.
Hain: Does my hon. Friend agree that, considering the
legislative programme, the proposal to reduce the number of Welsh MPs
would reduce the ability to scrutinise, vote on and represent Welsh
interests in this place? This is not about our own jobs, but about the
people of Wales having a strong voice
here.
Mrs.
Gillan: On a point of order, Mr. Caton. Is it
in order for right hon. or hon. Members to repeat an untruth after I
have clarified it on the record by saying that there are no proposals?
We should have high standards of veracity. Once I have made a
statement, is it in order, in a Committee of this sort in the House of
Commons, for hon. Members to repeat it and distort it so
totally?
The
Chairman: It is in order for people to say what they
believe. I am worried that we are consistently moving away from the
legislative programme. Perhaps we can get back to
it.
Albert
Owen: I certainly will get back to the subject, but I take
the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath that the
Queen’s Speech needs proper scrutiny and that we need to
maximise representation for Wales. It is wrong of the Leader of the
Opposition to make bold statements in national papers and for those to
be contradicted by the leader of the Conservative party in
Wales. The
overriding priority in the Queen’s Speech, set out in the first
sentence, is
“to ensure the
stability of the British economy”—[Official
Report, 3 December 2008; Vol. 485, c. 8.]
during the difficult
time of the economic crisis and downturn. It is difficult to uncouple
what is happening financially, the measures in the Queen’s
Speech and the impact on the real economy in our constituencies. The
downturn is hitting every community in Wales and the United Kingdom and
we need the measures in question to counter it and to stabilise and
help the economy.
There have
been closures in my constituency. The news from Wylfa nuclear power
station and Anglesey Aluminium has an impact on the local regional and
Welsh economies. There has also been slowing down in the high streets,
with Woolworths and other such iconic brands going. The Queen’s
Speech is right to prioritise the economy. External as well as UK
factors result in some closures. In my constituency the Eaton Electric
closure announcement involves 260 jobs. That is nothing to do with the
financial situation in this country. That company, based in Holyhead,
is making money. It makes a product that has a full market. The company
is relocating overseas just to get cheaper labour. We need a future
Queen’s Speech to include legislation to deal with multinational
companies that move a profitable operation on a whim, leaving social
and economic devastation in Welsh
communities.
Lembit
Öpik: The hon. Gentleman knows that I believe that
mid-Wales has been in recession for two or three years already, which
continues. What steps would he have wanted in the legislative programme
to try to support the kind of businesses that he has talked about? Does
he perceive—I ask this as a genuine question—a
legislative opportunity for us to try to protect jobs that otherwise
seep abroad, which is bad for the environment and the local
economy?
Albert
Owen: I do not accept that the country has been in
recession for two or three years, because in the past 10 years, between
1997 and 2007, in my constituency there was growth—a net
increase of 7,000 jobs. That is not what I call a recession. We now
face an economic crisis, and we need measures to stop it. The examples
I gave of companies with external pressures that pull them away need to
be looked at in a global
framework.
Lembit
Öpik: Just to clarify, I was not saying that the
whole country was in recession; I was observing that Powys has had a
decline in average salaries, in real terms, in the past couple of
years. I was not suggesting that the whole UK was in
recession.
Albert
Owen: The issue of salaries is interesting. It was not in
the Queen’s Speech, but I shall touch on it. The household
incomes in most counties of Wales have increased—I am talking
about households, as opposed to two people working. Thus the pattern,
the way of life and the lifestyles have changed. Most households now
have two incomes, whereas at one time they would have had one. Whether
we use GDP or gross value added to measure the prosperity of the area,
there are difficulties with respect to household incomes. The Assembly
is moving to look at household
incomes.
Mr.
David Jones: The hon. Gentleman mentioned that Eaton
Electric has a full order book, as does Anglesey Aluminium. Does he
know where the customers
for the products currently manufactured by the latter will go, if it
were unfortunately to close? Does he agree that they probably would
have to go overseas for their
supplies?
Albert
Owen: The issue with Eaton Electric is as I described it.
The company has merged with a German counterpart and wishes to move its
factory overseas. The market is an international one; it is looking to
Europe and the far east. The hon. Gentleman, who is a fellow member of
the Welsh Affairs Committee, knows that we have been following that
trend and that we need to do something about it in our globalisation
inquiry.
I thank my
right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and my right hon. Friend the
Member for Neath for the ongoing support that they have given to
Anglesey Aluminium, its work force and myself in trying to find a
solution to what is a very difficult and complex problem. It would be
devastating if the threatened closure of Anglesey Aluminium went ahead.
Not only are its jobs the highest paid in north-west Wales, but it
produces a top-quality product. However, it is in a very difficult
situation: its parent company—Rio Tinto Alcan, which is the
aluminium division of Rio Tinto—is cutting production across the
world. It is doing so in Australia, Canada and Europe, and is now
looking to do so in other places.
The issue
with Anglesey Aluminium is long standing. It could be said that the
company should have produced its own plant many years ago, but it was
put off because of the high price of gas so it did not go for gas. It
is now looking at biomass, but it has not put together a business plan.
I have mentioned the ongoing support of the Secretary of State, and I
appeal to him to host a meeting between the Department for Business,
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, the Department of Energy and Climate
Change and the Welsh Assembly Government so that we can resolve this
problem and keep top manufacturing jobs, which we need, in this
country.
As everybody
accepts, however, the price of electricity needs to be determined at a
commercial market value. We need to bring the Nuclear Decommissioning
Authority and Anglesey Aluminium closer together so that a deal can be
struck to sort out the short and mid-term energy problem in the
interests of the long-term prosperity of that
company.
Mrs.
Gillan: In all the conversations that I and my office have
had with Anglesey Aluminium, the hon. Gentleman’s efforts have
been praised highly, and I commend his efforts on behalf of his
constituent company. However, does he agree that there is a major
problem, because the Government have created a rod for their own back
by setting up the NDA at arm’s length from Government control?
The view of DBERR is that it cannot interfere, making the situation
even more complex. However, the Government are now considering
political intervention, which could result in a precedent being set. By
putting such organisations at arm’s length, the Government can
blame them when things go wrong and then provide a political solution
in order to try to dig themselves out of a hole. Does the hon.
Gentleman agree that there is a fundamental problem with the way in
which such structures are set up? I wonder whether
there is anything that I can do to help. I have written to the Secretary
of State about the matter, because it is intricately tied up with the
future of Wylfa, which will also present a major
problem.
Albert
Owen: I thank the hon. Lady for her support. We need
cross-party support, which we have had on this matter, and I wish that
to continue. However, the situation is complex. It is not as simple as
companies at Wylfa giving out cheap electricity, as she has said.
Prices have always been negotiated according to the commercial value.
The difference with the current climate is that energy crises and gaps
have more than doubled. That is the difficulty. I am not looking for
commercial intervention, for the reasons that she explained—it
would be illegal—but to coax the social dimension to ensure that
the Department and Anglesey Aluminium come to an agreement. Will the
Secretary of State carry on with his good office and host a meeting to
bring all the issues together, so that we can look at the political
dimension and mediate, support and assist the company in reaching an
agreement to save jobs at Anglesey
Aluminium? I
want to talk a little more about what was said in the Queen’s
Speech about the help being given to the economy. Ynys Môn is a
periphery area and was hit hardest by the recession of the 1980s and
the 1990s. It had the highest unemployment of any county and
constituency in Wales, and it still has a fragile
economy.
Chris
Ruane: As for the comparison between previous recessions
and downturns, there are quantitative and qualitative differences
between previous recessions and the present one. In the previous one,
interest rates went from 5 to 15 per cent. This time, they have gone
from 5 to 1.5 per cent. The number of people unemployed is
now 1.9 million, while previously it was 3 million. Does my hon. Friend
agree that there are such qualitative and quantitative
differences?
Albert
Owen: Yes, there are differences and in such circumstances
it is like comparing apples and pears. However, we all need to work
together and learn the lessons from the previous recessions on behalf
of our constituents. That is why I described the fragile economy of
Anglesey as a special case. In the 1980s and 1990s, we did not have
objective 1 convergence funds, which have helped my constituency. We
did not have such funds because the Conservatives did not apply for
them. They turned a blind eye to the fact that the economy of Wales was
sinking and did not apply for that additional resource, which is making
a difference. In areas such as mine that were hit so hard in previous
recessions, there is gross value added relative to the rest of the
United Kingdom, which makes the economy of the area far more difficult
to deal with. We need to learn the
lessons. The
Queen’s Speech provides a framework for financial aspects to be
dealt with. There is no magic dust. I did not expect the recession to
end in the first quarter—I do not think that anyone did. We are
in a difficult situation. In the next quarter, we will be told that we
are officially in recession, but we are doing things now at UK level.
The Welsh Assembly Government have had three economic summits on issues
for which they have responsibility, such as procurement. They have been
dealing with that and bringing forward projects. I want my constituency
to have extra help to get a fair share.
Before coming
to London this week, I attended an economic summit locally, which was
hosted by Anglesey county council. It was a good idea because it is no
use blaming Westminster or elsewhere. There are local solutions to help
our constituents through this difficult period. The council is being
imaginative, thinking out of the box and helping the local businesses
and families to which reference is made in the Queen’s Speech.
That cannot be directed just from this place or the Assembly. Such work
can be done at a local
level.
Mr.
Roger Williams: The hon. Gentleman raises an important
point about the role of local authorities in addressing the economic
downturn. Does he agree that one of the things that local authorities
can do—I have approached my local authority about this—is
to ensure that they pay their bills more promptly, particularly to
local businesses? In that way, we can keep the cash flowing and money
coming into the business and predicate a little about the difficulties
that some may have with the banks to raise the cash to keep them
going.
Albert
Owen: The hon. Gentleman referred to action that can be
taken quickly. The Secretary of State attends the economic summits and,
in fairness, I must say that a directive has been issued from the Welsh
Assembly Government and the summits for local authorities and local
businesses with many contracts in the area to act in that way. A
reduction in such problems has been seen in my
area.
Mr.
Llwyd: It might help if Ynys Môn council were to
consider preparing a directory of local businesses. We in Meirionnydd,
through the good offices of Antur Dwyryd, did that, and local
businesses found that they could source materials from 20 miles down
the road that they were importing from elsewhere. It all helps, and
such action might be a useful step forward.
Albert
Owen: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. One of the issues
that we discussed is looking again at the procurement and the rules and
regulations to which local authorities must now adhere to see whether
we can suspend them for this period of economic downturn, so that small
businesses can access local contracts. Hopefully, that will deliver. I
am talking about contracts of less than £25,000, which are
essential to local companies that lose trade. That is one of many good
ideas. The
summit was about helping families and businesses, as the Queen’s
Speech says, at that local level. It was attended not just by
politicians but by business. The CBI and the Federation of Small
Businesses were present and they were able to put ideas forward. They
were also complimentary about some of the measures already taken by the
Government. They asked for many of these measures and they are being
delivered. However, we need to have a more local solution to what is a
global
crisis. An
area that would help the business sector, families and localities is
tourism. The business sector has a good opportunity with the lower
pound to look to the eurozone market to entice people to come and get a
bargain. Our close neighbours in west Wales are the Republic of
Ireland. Friends who visit there more than I do tell me that a pint of
beer now costs €6. I am sure that the
Welsh tourism business and Visit Wales can entice people with bargains.
This crisis should be turned into an opportunity. Local businesses
should consider offering three nights for the price of two. We should
use the facilities we have such as the coastal paths, golf clubs and so
on to entice people to Wales. Being imaginative at that local level
will
help. A
Bill that was not mentioned by the Secretary of State but that was in
the Queen’s speech is the border Bill, which strengthens border
controls. It will have an impact on ports in west Wales and in my
constituency. As I understand it, the common travel area will be
suspended and passport controls will be brought in. I can understand
the reason for tightening border controls. It is important to do that.
The new agency at the port of Holyhead has been successful in getting
additional seizures. That partnership is working. I want to see that
develop and improve as time goes on.
My concern is
that if we put barriers in the Welsh ports, business could go to the
west coast of Scotland, over to Northern Ireland and then down over the
border into the Republic of Ireland. While I support the measure, this
unintended consequence could have an impact on the local economies of
ports in Wales. I ask the Minister to look at
that. I
welcome, as did the shadow Secretary of State, the measures on child
poverty. The Government have a good record of reducing poverty in Wales
and across the United Kingdom. In an economic downturn we do not want
to take our foot off the accelerator. We need to carry on with these
positive measures. I welcome the binding target that is in the
Queen’s Speech. The marine Bill has been touched on. Again, I
want talk about its complexity, with different devolved areas having
different responsibilities.
When the
right to roam legislation went through Parliament there was a furore
about there being masses of people and gangs ploughing across fields.
Some private landowners who own beach and coastal areas fear that that
might happen here. We need to allay their fears and have a standardised
measure across the whole of the United Kingdom, so that we can
advertise to tourists that the coast of the United Kingdom is open for
business. Wales has some of the finest stretches of coast in the UK,
and access will not be restricted by private landowners. We need to get
that measure right to boost the local economy.
I take very
seriously the points made by the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy
about over-fishing. We in are danger of losing some important species.
We have special areas of conservation in the Menai straits in my
constituency and various areas that need proper policing. The balance
between economic development in those areas and protecting the
environment is fragile. I am sure that the marine Bill will consider
that and how it affects the
area. My
final point concerns welfare reform. Like everybody, I welcome help and
support to get people from welfare into work. Disabled groups have
called for it, and we need to work with them to ensure that we provide
the right support and give people the right skills to enter and play a
full role in the work force. That is important, but I caution that in a
time of economic downturn, there is too much stick and not enough
carrot for groups who have been on incapacity benefit. I urge the
Government to consider that.
Groups have
approached me, as I am sure they have approached other Members,
regarding disabilities such as Parkinson’s disease. People on
incapacity benefit during the early stages of Parkinson’s have
many good days and a few poor days. If they were forced into the
workplace and their condition deteriorated, their family would suffer a
financial loss, contrary to the Government’s good intentions to
get people into the
workplace. Julie
Morgan (Cardiff, North) (Lab): I support what my hon.
Friend is saying. Does he agree that the Government also need to be
careful how they deal with people suffering from mental health
problems? Even a letter coming through the door can send someone with
mental health problems into a terrible state. It is important that that
should be considered. I know that many disabled people want to work,
and we want to give them the opportunity, but we must be careful about
certain
groups.
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