Julie
Morgan: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, in fact, a lot
has been achieved on child poverty, and that he puts those achievements
down when he speaks
that way? Is it not true that child poverty in Wales has fallen more
swiftly than in the rest of the UK, even if there is a long way to
go?
Mr.
Roger Williams: I accept absolutely what the hon. Lady
says. Nobody could be disappointed in any way when child poverty is
relieved and dealt with, but we are looking for details on how that
will be taken forward. As I said, the website says that the Bill
is “Subject
to further
consultation”, so
it is as though the Government have no ideas, or are lacking ideas, on
how they will take those issues
forward.
Mrs.
Gillan: I hope that, like me, the hon. Gentleman has had
the chance to read the statistics given by the Child Poverty Action
Group. It
states: “In
real terms, the poorest families got poorer—the median income of
the poorest two deciles fell in real
terms”. Several
other statements confirm that the flaunted so-called success is not
quite as it would appear. We would be burying our heads in the sand if
we did not recognise that there is a real need in our communities, and
that we should pay attention to it.
Mr.
Roger Williams: The hon. Lady makes a good point. I think
that there is a cross-party determination to do more and to do better
in that respect. I would not want to see the problem being treated as a
party political knockabout, but I would like to see more concrete
examples of how the Government wish to address it. My personal belief
is that relative poverty is as bad as absolute poverty. The difference
between the poorest and the richest in our society has increased under
the present Government. None the less, I take the point made by the
hon. Member for Cardiff, North that absolute poverty has to a certain
extent been relieved and that some benefit has been given to those
families.
A number of
hon. Members have spoken of the Marine and Coastal Access Bill. We have
been waiting for something like it for a long time. I assumed that it
would be a small Bill saying that we must care for our seas, but it
turns out to be a whacking big one. I have just checked, and the main
part of its provisions on coastal access relates to England only. For
Wales, it simply transfers the matter to the National Assembly for
Wales, as another part of the field of sport and recreation. It will be
up to Assembly Members to make what they want of the powers that are to
be given to
them. England has decided to go in one direction but I do not know
whether that would be appropriate for Wales. I believe that the
Assembly is best placed to take that decision, and I am pleased that we
are transferring the powers to it. The hon.
Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy said that Wales’s coastal
areas already have European protection. Wales and the National Assembly
can take pride in the fact that the coastline of Wales is more
protected than that of England—or of Scotland and Northern
Ireland. However, it is not beyond the wit of the Committee to ensure
that the provisions can be integrated, with the designation of more
marine conservation zones and other highly protected
areas.
Mark
Williams: My hon. Friend is right to highlight special
areas of conservation, not least that in Cardigan bay. Does he agree
that a key concern, a point raised by the hon. Member for Meirionnydd
Nant Conwy, is the question of policing? Breaches of the SACs and the
world heritage sites have been a real problem in Cardigan bay and
elsewhere.
Mr.
Roger Williams: Indeed. It is one thing to designate an
area, but another to ensure that the quality of the area is maintained,
or even improved. One limitation that will affect people’s
aspirations is whether the Bill will allow us to consider sea bed
conditions in order properly to identify, through sound science, those
areas that should be conserved; and then, as my hon. Friend says, to
monitor them to see that they are maintained or improved.
One issue
lacking in the Queen’s Speech has been addressed by recent
developments. I think of today’s proposals by Ofcom for public
sector broadcasting. I hope that the Government will take it up as
quickly as possible. We have seen a diminution in the plurality of
provision for public sector broadcasting, and that does us no good. We
need to get our messages across—those that we share, and others
on which we differ. If we are to engage with the public, it is
important that public sector broadcasting is maintained and that both
politicians and the public have access to
it.
11.25
am The
Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put (Standing Order
No.
88). Adjourned
till this day at Two
o’clock.
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