Mr.
David: I understand that my predecessor is handling the
Bill, so I am sure that he will be mindful of the points that have been
made. I will make a point of ensuring that the hon. Lady’s
comments are considered. However, I emphasise that this is an enabling
framework clause for the Assembly Government. We cannot entirely
pre-empt the Assembly’s intentions. However, it will be mindful
of the comments made in the
House. It
was not the Government’s intention that the Local Democracy,
Economic Development and Construction Bill be used as an excuse to take
powers away from local authorities. Local democracy is inherent to the
Bill. Over the last couple of years in Wales, we have seen a need for
greater co-ordination between local authorities—for example,
with the Beecham report. It is therefore logical to have more joint
scrutiny across local authority boundaries to ensure greater synergy in
local authority delivery. Within local authorities, there is a need to
enshrine democracy and scrutiny as effectively as possible. I believe
that the Bill will do
that. I
strongly disagree with the hon. Lady’s point on child poverty.
Great advances have been made over recent years, and some in the
Conservative party agree. The Conservative
social justice policy group document
states: “According
to the Family Resources Survey, child poverty levels...have
reduced gradually during the last decade in all family
types.” Progress
has therefore been made according to objective measurements. We want to
ensure that that progress continues. I believe that the Bill will help
to do
that. The
role of the Wales Office has been discussed. It is vital that the Wales
Office continues to be important. I refer the hon. Lady to a short
speech that I made to a conference that she attended at the Bevan
Foundation, which looked specifically at the role of the Wales Office.
I am not sure whether she attended during my speech, but she can read
it on the Wales Office website. It is important that the Wales Office
has a distinct role in the devolution settlement as mediator,
negotiator and facilitator, and in dealing with reserved matters. Since
the Government of Wales Act 2006, we have seen a reinforcement of the
role of the Wales Office. That is likely to continue, I hope, well into
the
future.
Mrs.
Gillan: I assure the Minister that we have no plans to get
rid of the Wales Office. However, he has swiftly moved on, or is trying
to. Will he tell the Committee whether he agreed with the request for
more MPs in Wales that came from the Chairman of the Welsh Affairs
Committee?
Mr.
David: I am not so sure whether that was a firm proposal,
but the point was well made—MPs from Wales fulfil an essential
role. I know that the hon. Lady
will be dying to hear my comments on that issue later on, so I would ask
her to curb her enthusiasm and she will hear what I have to say right
at the
end. My
hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn is a stout defender of his
local interest. He has made a strong case in his contribution for the
continuation of Anglesey Aluminium. He made a specific request for all
politicians—whether in the Welsh Assembly or here in
Westminster—to join together in a round-table meeting, which I
shall do everything to facilitate. He can be certain that the Wales
Office will do everything humanly possible to support the arguments
that he put forward. We recognise that Anglesey Aluminium is an
important feature of the economy of Ynys Môn. My hon. Friend is
not present, because he is meeting his
constituents—representatives from Anglesey—at this very
moment. That is another clear indication of how proactive he is on such
matters. The
hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire made a number of important
points. He referred to the structure of the Welsh Grand Committee and
the possibility that, in future, we could have more questions at the
start, as we have had in the past. That is a good suggestion, and I
shall ensure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State looks at
it carefully and at the suggestion of whether we can have more
Ministers—those with responsibility for reserved
matters—leading debate. There is much to be said for
that. The
hon. Gentleman specifically asked why there were, in his words, so few
requests about framework powers from the Welsh Assembly Government. He
will have to ask the Welsh Assembly Government that, because we have
acted upon what they have asked for. It is up to them to judge what
they require and what they deem to be
necessary. The
hon. Gentleman also made reference to that great figure, Robert Owen,
whom I would suggest is very much part of the co-operative, socialist
tradition—at one time he used to be a member of the Labour
Party. Robert Owen, that great person, made a huge contribution to the
development of economic and socialist thinking and is certainly central
to the development of Welsh
history.
Mr.
Roger Williams: Will the Minister give
way?
Mr.
David: I have to press on. I should like to address all
the comments, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not disagree
with anything that I have said so
far. On
the historical theme, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon made
numerous historical references—to historian Eric Hobsbawm, for
example—and eloquently spoke about the inspiration that Barack
Obama is providing, not just to the United States but to the whole
world. Many of us would wholeheartedly support his trenchant
denunciation of brutal
extremism. I
should like to pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his work as the
Chairman of the Welsh Affairs Committee. The Select Committee’s
reports have been extremely important, well received and, what is more,
acted upon. That shows not only how good but how important the reports
are. He referred specifically to apprenticeships. Apprenticeships are
vital, especially in the current economic context. The skills of our
people will take us out of the economic downturn and lay the
foundations for future prosperity. He mentioned Lord Rowlands. I will
be
meeting Lord Rowlands shortly. I am more than aware not only of the
tremendous work that he has done on this issue as a former MP and as a
Member of the other place, but of his involvement in Tydfil training in
his own area of Merthyr
Tydfil. The
hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy made an extremely thoughtful
contribution. He referred to the Coroners and Justice Bill. I am
pleased that he acknowledged that, when that Bill is passed and
implemented, it will significantly improve the service that bereaved
families receive. He made specific criticisms and expressed concerns
about two points. I will write to him about them, because they deserve
careful consideration and a proper answer. I assure him he will get
that. My
hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, North made an extremely positive
speech. She expressed forceful support for the Equal Pay and Flexible
Working Bill. Her track record on child poverty speaks for itself. She
is a doughty advocate. She is also committed to skills and training.
What she said about the international baccalaureate was particularly
important. The remarks that have been attributed to certain people
about why they wish to move from Cardiff are quite wrong. Like many
Members, I was quite stunned by the comments that she reported to the
Committee. I have seen my hon. Friend’s early-day motion, which
summarises her argument extremely well. The Wales Office will do
everything possible to stand firmly next to her to ensure that what is
being proposed does not come
about. The
hon. Member for Ceredigion referred to the Marine and Coastal Access
Bill. Although I am not an expert on scallop fishing, for example, I
note what he
and other Members said about that. We will certainly be mindful of that
subject during the passage of the Bill. He also asked whether I could
meet representatives when I am in that neck of the woods.
Coincidentally, I shall visit Aberystwyth in the not-too-distant
future. I shall be more than happy to meet representatives
who have concerns about aspects of the Bill and broader maritime issues
when I visit
Ceredigion. The
hon. Member for Caernarfon referred to welfare reform, as did other
Members. I remember very well in south Wales how whole generations of
ex-miners were simply written off and left on the dole and incapacity
benefit for years upon years. They were given no attention, support or
encouragement. It is tempting to tackle that kind of situation, but we
have brought forward our proposals in the Welfare Reform Bill. I
appreciate that visits are a sensitive issue, but essentially this is
not about victimising people or making life difficult for them. It is
about giving them new opportunities. “Opportunity” is a
key word. I ask him to bear that in mind. Moreover, new opportunities
loom large in the social mobility paper, which has been issued for
consultation. Finally,
this has been a good debate, but it highlights more than anything else
why we need to have 40 Welsh MPs. I hear what the hon. Member for
Chesham and Amersham says, and I accept the points that she makes.
Nevertheless, there is a big question mark over Welsh representation,
and it is Labour Members’ duty to ensure that it is replaced by
a firm
tick. 4
pm The
debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 108 and Order of
the House, 14
January). Committee
adjourned.
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