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3 Feb 2009 : Column 207WH—continued
In that context, consideration must be given to harnessing the power of the Severn estuary, with its phenomenal 14-metre tidal range. As the hon. Gentleman said, it could provide some 5 per cent. of UK electricity from a
renewable, indigenous resource. It is a hugely important option. The Cardiff-Weston barrage, which he favours, could save 7 million tonnes of CO2 a year and have an operational life of more than a century, which would be more than equivalent to turning off two medium-sized coal-fired power stations.
Of course, before we take a decision on whether to support a Severn tidal power scheme, we must understand all the pros and cons. As the hon. Gentleman said, that takes time. We must understand the potentially considerable effects on the estuary’s unique and internationally important environment, the possible impacts on flooding, the impacts on the people and economies—he mentioned tourism—of the south-west and Wales and how a scheme could be financed and owned. Only when we have that information will we decide whether we want to support a scheme, and that decision will be a question of which of all the alternative low-carbon options offers the best, fairest and most sustainable way to meet our climate change goals.
Over the past year, we have begun the work that we need to do, building on the valuable work done by the Sustainable Development Commission, which the hon. Gentleman mentioned. We have assessed, in high-level terms, the costs, benefits and impacts of 10 possible schemes and are consulting on a list of the five schemes that we consider are technically and economically feasible—the schemes that we believe could be built. The consultation will cover the process used to move from the long list to the shortlist, the proposed shortlist and the proposed issues for further investigation, including the scope of the strategic environmental assessment.
As the hon. Gentleman said, the shortlist includes two lagoons—one proposed for Bridgwater bay and one on the Welsh shore of the estuary—a larger tidal barrage between Lavernock point and Brean down, known as the Cardiff-Weston barrage, and two smaller barrage proposals, at Beachley and Shoots. Those schemes vary in cost between £2 billion and £21 billion. They also differ in respect of potential environmental and regional impacts and the way in which they could be financed and owned. The hon. Gentleman has said that the taxpayer will always have to pay. That is not our assessment. We believe that there would need to be very serious public money for the Cardiff-Weston barrage because of the huge cost, but it is not impossible that some of the smaller proposals could be funded entirely by the private sector.
All schemes would impact on the estuary’s unique environment by reducing designated intertidal areas, displacing protected bird species and threatening migratory fish, with the scale of the impact varying between the different schemes. Clearly, that is why we have to assess all of them. More work will be done this year further to understand the scale of the potential impact on the environment and how those impacts could be mitigated or, if not mitigated, compensated for as required by law. We do not take threats to biodiversity lightly, but climate change is probably the greatest threat to biodiversity, not least through rising sea levels.
All the schemes are likely to have, on balance, positive regional economic and employment benefits, with the Cardiff-Weston barrage potentially bringing 1,500 net additional jobs over a seven-year construction period and smaller schemes bringing an additional 500 jobs over a five-year construction period. Of course, we also
recognise the potential impacts on the estuary’s ports and other industries such as fishing and tourism, to which the hon. Gentleman alluded. Clearly, that has to be taken into account in any of these debates. As I said, the smaller schemes could be constructed by the private sector alone, but we believe that the Government will be required to help if the largest of the schemes goes ahead.
The hon. Gentleman raised a number of points, particularly about the impact on Hinkley. We recognise that there is concern about flooding in the Severn region if a Severn tidal power scheme goes ahead. We will need in-depth investigation involving the Environment Agency to examine that issue. We already know that much more work will be needed over the coming year, but at this stage we do not expect the higher low-tide levels behind a barrage significantly to affect any upstream flooding caused by rain—the hon. Gentleman will be familiar with the major floods in Tewkesbury in 2007. It is even possible that some schemes could provide extra protection from flooding caused by strong storm surges from the sea. That was one of the aspects advanced in support of the outer barrage, which has not been included in the shortlist because we consider it simply unaffordable.
The hon. Gentleman asked about the impact on Hinkley. Again, that needs to be fully understood and examined. The strategic environmental assessment that we are doing within the study will examine the impact of a Severn tidal power scheme on existing and planned infrastructure in the Severn estuary region. That is the assurance that I can give him: we are entirely mindful of the present infrastructure and any future developments. That all has to be taken into account. A decision on whether we want to support a Severn tidal barrage will have to take in the wider context of all our alternative options for meeting our climate and energy objectives. As he said, nuclear power will play an important part in meeting those objectives.
The hon. Gentleman also mentioned the tidal reef and tidal fence. I want to say a quick word about those technologies, which are not on the shortlist. We are keen not to rule out those innovative new schemes but they are not sufficiently developed technically at the present time, so there must be more detailed evaluation if they become technically feasible.
We are committed to considering the progress of those technologies before taking a decision in 2010, after a second public consultation, so that is why we will need to see what technical developments they can bring on stream in time for that second consultation. In order that those technologies should have a fair chance of being selected, we have provided £500,000 of public money to examine them. They have their supporters, they are interesting schemes and we must give them a fair chance as we are progressing.
The hon. Gentleman said that he thought that perhaps we just wanted to prevaricate further and put this issue on the back burner. I can assure him that that is absolutely not the attitude of Ministers. We have taken seriously our commitments on climate change and on renewable energy, and we know that this scheme could play a very significant part in meeting those commitments, so we are very keen to move ahead as fast as is reasonable, while treating consistently all the issues that must be discussed.
We do not think that it will be possible to deliver on our climate change goals without radical action and without making tough choices. We are absolutely committed to ensuring that we take those choices in a way that is fair to people, communities and businesses, and in a way that is also sustainable. As I have said, we are also absolutely committed to entering an open dialogue on whether or not harnessing the vast power of the River Severn has a role to play in meeting our goals.
I am so sorry to tell the hon. Gentleman this, because it is exactly what he does not want to hear, but to that end there will be a second public consultation. However, at that point, we will have so much more material—so much more concrete evidence—to put before people and it is only in that way that we can move towards making a proper decision.
Meanwhile, I hope that all hon. Members will join in the current debate, keeping an open mind until we have the evidence we need to make an informed decision on whether or not we want a Severn tidal scheme to go ahead. I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving us the opportunity to have a very interesting exchange; I know that it will be the first of many that we will have.
Identity Cards (Welsh Language)
12.59 pm
Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): I am grateful to have the opportunity to raise this important issue today. I am pleased to see my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) and the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mark Williams).
This week, we have had the publication of the Welsh language legislative competence order, which is another historic step forward in developing the use of Welsh in public life. I want to start by referring to the enormous progress that we have made in the past 50 years in the development of the use of Welsh in public life and to say, therefore, why it was so disappointing to see that there was no Welsh text on the first identity cards.
I remember well going to visit my grandmother when I was a child, who never spoke anything but Welsh to us and always wanted us to use Welsh. Yet, when she sent a birthday card, the little note inside it would invariably be written in English—an English that was clearly a literal translation of the Welsh. That is because she was born in 1901 and had little opportunity to use Welsh in an educational context. Therefore, when using money and writing notes she used English—although as she was a Sunday school teacher, she had a good knowledge of biblical Welsh. That is one of the reasons why Welsh has remained so strong in many of our communities through the centuries.
Just before Christmas, I had the opportunity to be present in Llangennech community hall in my constituency. They have named one of the halls in the new centre “Beasley hall”. Members of the Beasley family were there to commemorate the fact that it was their family who had objected to having a rates demand that was only in English and asked to have one in Welsh. We have come a long way since those days and the majority of our documents in public life in Wales are available in Welsh if we want them to be.
My predecessor as MP for Llanelli, Jim Griffiths, is famous to many for his role in the post-war Labour Government and for introducing national insurance. We sometimes forget that he was also passionate about Welsh and about setting up a separate Department in Whitehall. Eventually, towards the end of his political career, he saw that come to fruition in the setting up of the Welsh Office and he became the first Secretary of State for Wales.
Later on, in 1967, it was a Labour Government who introduced the Welsh Language Act, which laid down the principle of the equal validity of English and Welsh in Wales. By that time, enthusiasm for Welsh was growing—even in the more anglicised parts of Wales. A huge investment was made by Labour councils, such as the old Glamorgan, which in 1974 became the three Glamorgans—Mid, South and West. There was huge interest and investment in the expansion of Welsh-medium education; new schools were opened, and the element of Welsh in traditional bilingual community schools was considerably strengthened. A whole range of materials were developed that pupils could use. Someone could walk into a school and learn about millstone grit or the Vikings through the medium of Welsh. All those support materials are extremely important to developing confidence that Welsh is a language that can be used in all walks of life to talk about all subjects.
We also saw the development of the Welsh spelling of place names. Many of our place names, such as Llanelli and Llandeilo, had acquired an anglicised look, possibly because of the English-speaking census collectors in the 19th century. Gradually, in the 1960s, partly through some of the good work done by the Royal Mail and a number of enthusiasts, we restored the authentic Welsh spelling to many of our place names in Wales.
Why, then, does it matter so much to have Welsh text on ID cards? There are four main reasons. First, those whose native or preferred language is Welsh expect to see it. They expect to see Welsh on most official signs and on official documents, and they expect to have the opportunity, if they so wish, to read the Welsh part of a form or see the Welsh part of a sign. It is important that we set a good example, lead from the front on this matter and make sure that those things are there.
Secondly, using Welsh on ID cards sends a clear message that it has equal validity with English, and that is what was said in the 1967 Act. Welsh is not just the language of the kitchen or the farm yard; it can be used in official settings. If people see that Welsh is there, they may begin to use it in dialogue. The fact that someone can see the Welsh sign and that they are greeted in Welsh may mean that they continue to use Welsh. Welsh text sends out a clear message that people can use Welsh, and it acts as an encouragement for them to do so. It is important, too, to emphasise the fact that Welsh is a living language. It is used all the time. It is not a fossilised language, such as Norman French, that is brought out on occasions and for ceremonies. As we invent new things such as dishwashers or computers, we find valid Welsh words for them and so our language grows. When we introduce jargon, such as “antisocial behaviour”, we have valid Welsh words for them. The use of Welsh, both in the printed form and in the media, is extremely important in modernising our vocabulary, so that we can talk about all sorts of modern devices and not just recite the parables in the Bible.
The fourth reason for using Welsh text is that it builds up confidence. Some 20 per cent. of people in Wales define themselves as Welsh speakers. We have many who do not have a great deal of confidence in their Welsh. They will even say to Welsh speakers, “I don’t think that I can speak Welsh to you because your Welsh is too good for me.” They may not have had the opportunity to have all their education through the medium of Welsh. In addition, among the 80 per cent. of non-Welsh speakers, we have a lot of people who have a keen interest in Welsh. They like to see it being used and to see that opportunity there for people who can use it. They often benefit themselves from seeing signs and forms in Welsh because it helps them to develop their own vocabulary. It often reminds them of things that they vaguely remember from their time at school but they have not used in their lives since.
Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): One other important way of expanding the use of Welsh is through television and radio. The 1967 Act laid the foundations for Radio Cymru and S4C. They were important landmarks that came out of that Act. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is important for the whole cultural spirit of Wales?
Nia Griffith:
Absolutely. If we talk about the modern context, it is far more important to be able to say and hear something than to be able to write it down. As for
influencing people’s lives, the development of radio and TV has been immensely important. It provides the opportunity to use Welsh in all contexts that go far beyond people’s own experience in the home.
Therefore, we have made huge progress. Government Departments have done their bit as well. If someone wants to discuss their tax, they can ring up a Welsh helpline. If someone needs advice or help on issues raised by the Department for Work and Pensions, they can ring up a Welsh helpline. There has been tremendous progress not just in the written language but in providing the opportunities for people to speak Welsh if they wish to. The utility companies have adopted similar policies and helplines. With the use of technology now, there are so many ways in which we can make things bilingual.
The question is, what went wrong? Are we now saying, “How do we fit three languages on the ID card that we have designed?” What we should say is, “How do we design an ID card to fit three languages?” I say three languages because the rule is that we need two EU languages. Whereas my passport has English and French, and my driving licence Welsh and English, we will need three languages on the ID card. That is not impossible because there is a number by the words “name” or “address” and then there is a key. On the back of my driving licence there is not only English and Welsh, but a lot of little pictures of various vehicles. I am sure that on an ID card there could be room for a third language. On my passport, I have a key, and I can see that my passport was issued in 2002. At that time, 12 official EU languages were listed. Therefore, it does not seem to be a great deal to ask that we should get three languages on the ID card. I hope that the Minister will arrange for that to happen as soon as possible.
Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I very much agree with the hon. Lady. She is a former teacher, and she expressed concisely and clearly her frustrations at the inability to get the issue of languages addressed on the cards. Does she share my concern about the timetable and the assertion that we will not hear from the Minister until 2011? We have heard some warm, encouraging words from the Minister about her intention to pursue the issue, but should we wait until 2011? Does the hon. Lady share my regret that, as part of the roll-out of the voluntary ID card system, young people and students will be offered ID cards in 2010 without any provision for the Welsh language?
Nia Griffith: Indeed I do, which is why I asked why we had to think about fitting something on to the card when we could have designed the card to fit the purpose. I share the hon. Gentleman’s disappointment, but I look forward to better things in future.
1.11 pm
Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab):
It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) and I congratulate her on securing this important debate. As she indicated, we follow two very important figures not only in Welsh politics, but in British politics: Jim Griffiths, a former deputy leader of the Labour party and the Minister who introduced national insurance; and Cledwyn Hughes, a predecessor of mine, the second Secretary of State for Wales—he followed Jim Griffiths into the
office—who introduced the Welsh Language Act 1967, which was the first such Act. I am proud to follow my hon. Friend, and it is fitting that I do so.
Jim Griffiths and Cledwyn Hughes believed in a Welsh identity in a British context. They believed that they could be proud to be British and proud to be Welsh, and saw no contradiction in those things. Both men were instrumental in promoting the legal status of the Welsh language through the 1967 Act. My hon. Friend alluded to some of the provisions, including the right to have forms in the Welsh language. The Act set that important precedent.
Jim Griffiths and Cledwyn Hughes were pragmatists. They understood that problems of this nature had to be dealt with incrementally, so that people could catch up with the changes. They understood both what was practical and what could be achieved. It is important to refer to those very important parliamentarians—they graced Westminster and were well thought of for their Welsh identity, and for the way in which they represented Welshness in British politics.
It will be no shock to the Minister that I am not a fan of ID cards per se, but the debate has moved on, and we are now looking at the practical elements and asking how to move forward. We should do so by introducing a Welsh text on to the ID card. Welsh identity is important. To many Welsh people, that identity is partly expressed through the Welsh language, along with history, culture, heritage, and a sense of belonging.
I welcome the early attention that the Minister has given to Welsh text and bilingualism, and the discussions that she has had with me and other parliamentary colleagues. It is important to have such a dialogue. In the few minutes that I have to speak, I intend to say what I think is the practical way forward, so that our aspirations can be met.
I am mindful of the debacle that surrounded the 2001 census—a Welsh box was not on the original forms—which rightly caused uproar. People in Wales felt that their identity was being sidelined. That situation will be rectified by the 2011 census, but if there had been greater consultation and dialogue prior to the database being set up, the debacle could have been avoided. There is no problem with it now, but there would have been no problem at all had there been such consultation. I thank the Minister for having such an open dialogue and, indeed, the Home Office for consulting more widely. As many of us in Wales say, the Welsh language does not belong to any one group, and certainly not to any one political party: it belongs to the people of Wales.
Mark Williams: I am very pleased to hear that. Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) that the Welsh learners—the people who have moved to Wales and feel passionately about the language—are a very important lobby that needs to be considered? It is important to take into account the confidence and passion of those who wish to feel a sense of belonging.
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