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The importance of learning and appreciating history cannot be underestimated. To quote the revered historian, Anthony Seldon:
“Only if young people learn about their own country, and its place in the world, will they be able to play their full part as citizens and voters.”
I commend the Bill to the House.
12.42 pm
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): I take the view that politicians should be very careful about laying down what should be taught in history, and particularly what should be taught in schools. Only today I read in a newspaper that Russian teachers have been told that they should be very careful over what is being taught to school pupils about the communist period. One person associated with the Russian Prime Minister said:
“Don’t throw mud at the Motherland”.
Clearly, Russian history teachers are being sharply told what should and should not be taught.
If we are to have lessons in British history, a number of points that the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) raised should be emphasised. I would not necessarily disagree with his view that this country has a proud history and I see no reason why school pupils should not be told about it. I imagine most of them are. However, other aspects of our history should also, in my view, be told. School children should be told, for example, about what happened in 1381, but the hon. Gentleman did not mention that. This was the first revolt by ordinary people in this country and it took place over a poll tax— [Interruption.] It was the peasants’ uprising, led by John Ball and Wat Tyler— [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker: Order. The Bill’s promoter was heard in silence, so we should also allow the hon. Member opposing it to be properly heard.
Mr. Winnick: That was an important aspect of British history, when ordinary people decided that they were going to revolt against a poll tax rather earlier than our more recent disagreements over a similar tax. What about the Levellers and the Diggers, following the civil war? Then, again, ordinary people took the view that the abolition of the monarchy should be followed by a system in which they could vote and take decisions, which would otherwise have been impossible—and was impossible for a long time to come after the civil war. However, there was not a single mention from the hon. Gentleman of the Levellers and the Diggers—a very important aspect of British history. For that matter, I would also like to see some recognition in the House of Commons of those who fought in those days for elementary rights.
What about the Great Reform Act? Not a single mention was made by the hon. Gentleman of the agitation of the people of this country that they should have the right to vote. Before the Great Reform Act of 1831— [Interruption.] I do not know why Conservative Members are getting so excited. Before the Reform Act of 1831, only a very small number were able to vote. The overwhelming majority of people had no vote at all and the agitation—the reform—that led to the House of Commons becoming more representative is surely an aspect of history that should be taught and that we
should be pleased about. There was no mention either of Peterloo in 1819, when a number of people were killed demonstrating in Manchester, some four years after the end of the war against Napoleon, so the hon. Gentleman is being very selective.
Another topic in British history was not mentioned—the Tolpuddle martyrs. In 1834, six people in a small village in Dorset were convicted of a criminal offence and deported to Australia. Why no mention of the Tolpuddle martyrs? Is the hon. Gentleman aware of what happened or ashamed of it?
Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): It is history. What about 1832?
Mr. Winnick: The Tolpuddle martyrs were in 1834.
As I said at the beginning of my speech, my view is that we, as politicians in a democracy, should be careful about not laying down what should or should not be taught in schools. The hon. Member for Romford has a strong view; so do I. The more we leave history to the professionals and do not intervene, the better. That is the proper way to go about matters.
I oppose the Bill, but I do not consider it, or at least what the hon. Gentleman himself has said, of such major concern that he should divide the House. The House has a busy day ahead, and if he wants permission to proceed with his Bill, which will not get anywhere, so be it.
That Andrew Rosindell, Angela Watkinson, David Simpson, Mr. Mark Lancaster, Andrew Selous, Mr. Gerald Howarth, Mr. David Evennett, Mr. Frank Field, Joan Ryan, David Cairns, Mr. David Jones and Mr. Henry Bellingham present the Bill.
Andrew Rosindell accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 16 October and to be printed (Bill 71).
Northern Ireland Bill (Allocation of Time)
Mr. Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected amendment (a), which stands in the name of the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Bone).
12.49 pm
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun Woodward): I beg to move,
That the following provisions shall apply to the proceedings on the Northern Ireland Bill—
Timetable
1.—(1) Proceedings on Second Reading, in Committee, on consideration and on Third Reading shall be completed at today’s sitting in accordance with the following provisions of this paragraph.
(2) Proceedings on Second Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion four hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order.
(3) Proceedings in Committee, on consideration and on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption or six hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order, whichever is the later.
Timing of proceedings and Questions to be put
2. When the Bill has been read a second time—
(a) it shall (notwithstanding Standing Order No. 63 (Committal of bills not subject to a programme order)) stand committed to a Committee of the whole House without any Question being put; and
(b) the Speaker shall leave the Chair whether or not notice of an Instruction has been given.
3.—(1) On the conclusion of proceedings in Committee, the Chairman shall report the Bill to the House without putting any Question.
(2) If the Bill is reported with amendments, the House shall proceed to consider the Bill as amended without any Question being put.
4. For the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 1, the Chairman or Speaker shall forthwith put the following Questions (but no others)—
(a) any Question already proposed from the Chair;
(b) any Question necessary to bring to a decision a Question so proposed;
(c) the Question on any amendment moved or Motion made by a Minister of the Crown;
(d) any other Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded.
5. On a Motion so made for a new Clause or a new Schedule, the Chairman or Speaker shall put only the Question that the Clause or Schedule be added to the Bill.
Consideration of Lords Amendments
6.—(1) Any Lords Amendments to the Bill shall be considered forthwith without any Question being put.
(2) Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not 40 previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.
7.—(1) This paragraph applies for the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 6.
(2) The Speaker shall first put forthwith any Question already proposed from the Chair.
(3) If that Question is for the amendment of a Lords Amendment the Speaker shall then put forthwith—
(a) a single Question on any further Amendments to the Lords Amendment moved by a Minister of the Crown, and
(b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown that this House agrees or disagrees to the Lords Amendment or (as the case may be) to the Lords Amendment as amended.
(4) The Speaker shall then put forthwith—
(a) a single Question on any Amendments moved by a Minister of the Crown to a Lords Amendment, and
(b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown that this House agrees or disagrees to the Lords Amendment or (as the case may be) to the Lords Amendment as amended.
(5) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown that this House disagrees to a Lords Amendment.
(6) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question that this House agrees to all the remaining Lords Amendments.
(7) As soon as the House has—
(a) agreed or disagreed to a Lords Amendment, or
(b) disposed of an Amendment relevant to a Lords Amendment which has been disagreed to, the Speaker shall put forthwith a single Question on any Amendments moved by a Minister of the Crown and relevant to the Lords Amendment.
Subsequent stages
8.—(1) Any further Message from the Lords on the Bill shall be considered forthwith without any Question being put.
(2) Proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.
9.—(1) This paragraph applies for the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 8.
(2) The Speaker shall first put forthwith any Question which has been proposed from the Chair.
(3) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown which is related to the Question already proposed from the Chair.
(4) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown on or relevant to any of the remaining items in the Lords Message.
(5) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question that this House agrees with the Lords in all the remaining Lords Proposals.
Reasons Committee
10.—(1) The Speaker shall put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for the appointment, nomination and quorum of a Committee to draw up Reasons and the appointment of its Chairman.
(2) A Committee appointed to draw up Reasons shall report before the conclusion 90 of the sitting at which it is appointed.
(3) Proceedings in the Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion 30 minutes after their commencement.
(4) For the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with sub-paragraph (3), the Chairman shall—
(a) first put forthwith any Question which has been proposed from the Chair, and
(b) then put forthwith successively Questions on motions which may be made by a Minister of the Crown for assigning a Reason for disagreeing with the Lords in any of their Amendments.
(5) The proceedings of the Committee shall be reported without any further Question being put.
Miscellaneous
11.—(1) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business) shall apply so far as necessary for the purposes of this Order.
(2) Proceedings to which this Order applies shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of the House.
12.—(1) The proceedings on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.
(2) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business) shall apply to those proceedings.
13. Standing Order No. 82 (Business Committee) shall not apply in relation to any proceedings to which this Order applies.
14.—(1) No Motion shall be made, except by a Minister of the Crown, to alter the Order in which any proceedings on the Bill are taken or to recommit the Bill.
(2) The Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith.
15.—(1) No dilatory Motion shall be made in relation to proceedings to which this Order applies except by a Minister of the Crown.
(2) The Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith.
16. The Speaker may not arrange for a debate to be held in accordance with Standing Order No. 24 (Emergency debates)—
(a) at today’s sitting, or
(b) at any sitting at which Lords Amendments to the Bill are, or any further Message from the Lords is, to be considered, before the conclusion of any proceedings to which this Order applies.
17.—(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies if the House is adjourned, or the sitting is suspended, before the conclusion of any proceedings to which this Order applies.
(2) No notice shall be required of a Motion made at the next sitting by a Minister of the Crown for varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order.
Mr. Woodward: It might help if I briefly spell out why we have tabled the motion and the parliamentary timetable for the Bill. Members on both sides of the House have expressed concern about the timetable. I would like to explain why we are taking weeks rather than months to take the Bill through Parliament to Royal Assent.
The Government committed at St. Andrews that when the Assembly was ready to ask for the transfer of policing and justice powers, the necessary enabling legislation would be in place. We had envisaged that it would take up to a year to see sufficient confidence built to realise stage 2. However, 18 months have passed before the political environment has felt confident enough even to begin the process.
On 18 November 2008, the First Minister and Deputy First Minister wrote to the Assembly and Executive Review Committee to say that they had reached agreement on a way forward to the completion of devolution. In January this year, the committee reported on its deliberations on the devolution of policing and justice powers, and the Assembly agreed the report on a cross-community vote. The elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland, having gone through their Assembly and Executive Review Committee, have asked that we give legislative form to their agreements of November and January. In that sense, the Bill not only enjoys confidence, but has “Made in Northern Ireland” stamped firmly on it.
This is not the legislation that will affect the transfer of power. It is, however, important in that it makes a series of changes to departmental models, and deals with arrangements for the appointment of a Justice Minister and arrangements for the judiciary. It is for the people of Northern Ireland, through their Assembly, to decide when to ask for the transfer of powers. The triple lock set out in the Northern Ireland Act 1988 remains firmly in place. We made a commitment to be ready to play our part, and that is why it is necessary to have this legislation in place now and to expedite its path. That is not for the convenience of the Government; it is in order to ensure that when the Assembly asks, we are ready. That is why I am asking the House to expedite the arrangements without undue delay.
I am very aware that this is not the first occasion on which we have asked for the passage of Northern Ireland legislation to be made a matter of urgency, and, along with my predecessors as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, I continue to be grateful to the House for its indulgence. It has helped to spur Northern Ireland to its transformation from violence to peace and from inequality to partnership in power, truly building the environment for a shared future. I ask again for the co-operation and support of the House in expediting this legislation, thereby enabling those who are elected in Northern Ireland to take control of their destiny and, at a time of their choosing, accept responsibility for the policing and justice powers that currently reside in the hands of the Secretary of State.
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