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10 Mar 2009 : Column 19WH—continued
10.38 am
Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid-Kent) (Con): As is customary, I too start by congratulating the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) on securing the debate on the GB football team at the London 2012 Olympics. I hope that he will not mind my saying, however, that despite the evident good humour with which he spoke, as a sports fan I have not approached the debate with great enthusiasm. I do not think that it reflects particularly well on the management of the issue thus far that the selection of sportsmen and women, both able-bodied and Paralympic, to represent their country at a home Olympics, has become a matter of such entrenched political debate. It would have been much better if we could all have resisted temptation and left the issue to be resolved by sport, not politics.
When considering such matters, it is often instructive to look to history for a precedent. I am not sure that it is relevant in this case, but for the record—no one has yet mentioned this—Great Britain has won three gold medals at football. The first was in 1900; the hon. Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) will be delighted to know that Upton Park football club represented this country and won. In 1908 the English national amateur team won, and the last medal was won in 1912.
GB went on to compete, perfectly happily, in 1920, 1936, 1948—the London games—1952, 1956 and, for the last time, in Rome in 1960. GB participated in the qualifying rounds in 1972, but failed to qualify. I have been unable to verify whether we lost on penalties to Germany. However, the removal of the distinction between professional and amateur teams by the Football Association in 1974 meant the end of our participation in the Olympics.
As the Minister said, we fielded two teams at the Paralympic games in Beijing—a seven-a-side cerebral palsy team and a five-a-side blind football team. Inevitably, in view of this morning’s debate, the cerebral palsy team contained footballers from Scotland, but the FA managed the team without controversy on behalf of GB. That rather backs up my view that these issues are controversial only when politicians become involved.
As far as the specifics of this morning’s debate are concerned, I wish to make three points. First—this is a personal view, and I doubt whether it will be popular with the Minister—I sometimes wonder whether football is a natural fit with the rest of the Olympic games. I fully realise that it is a decision solely for the International Olympic Committee, and not one for national Governments; indeed, I endorsed London’s bid for the 2012 games even though football was always a key part of our offer. None the less, I believe that the Olympics should contain only those sports in which it is the peak of an athlete’s career to win a gold medal.
For many male footballers—indeed, perhaps the majority—winning the premier league, the Scottish league, la Liga, the Serie A, the Bundesliga, the European cup, the World cup or the European championships will always be more prestigious than winning an Olympic gold medal. I realise that football brings a new audience to the Olympics, with its associated broadcasting and revenue opportunities, but as a traditionalist I believe that anyone winning an Olympic gold medal should feel that they had reached the absolute pinnacle of their sport. I am not convinced that is the case for many male footballers.
Tom Brake: Is the hon. Gentleman drawing a distinction between men’s football, women’s football and Paralympic football?
Hugh Robertson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I shall continue.
The situation is different for the women’s game. Being part of the Olympics opens up unprecedented coverage to the UK’s fastest growing participation sport, and it would be the pinnacle of any female footballer’s career. After the failed attempt to field a women’s team in Beijing, women’s football would receive a huge boost if it was able to participate before home crowds in 2012. However, despite my personal misgivings about the male game, football will be a key part of London 2012 in some way, shape or form. The challenge is to make it work as well as possible.
That brings me to my second point. I entirely agree with the hon. Member for Thurrock that it is a great shame that the issue has become so politically contentious. The whole question of having a football team at London 2012 has become part of a wider debate about devolution and independence. I am sorry to have to tell the Minister that both the main protagonists are at fault in that regard. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have used the issue to make wider points about the Union and, unsurprisingly, the Scottish National party has reacted.
Mr. MacNeil: The clear voices that have been raised against Team UK or Team GB have not been heard. It falls into the realm of politics if the authoritative voices that should be listened to are not being heard. I would say that is the result of arrogance.
Hugh Robertson: In a way, the hon. Gentleman is making the same point as me; it would have been better if we had managed to hold off and stop the issue becoming a political point.
Andrew Mackinlay: The hon. Gentleman was keen to mention the Prime Minister. Does he think that Lord Coe, his colleague, has had a role in making the matter political?
Hugh Robertson: No, I do not. As chairman of the organising committee, Lord Coe has to take his lead from the Government. The Government are responsible for the overall strategic direction of the 2012 Olympics, and the Prime Minister gave a lead. Lord Coe had to follow. He did not have the option.
My third and final point is that given that we are where we are, the key thing is what to do next. The British Olympic Association, which is responsible for selecting Team GB, has assured me absolutely that FIFA’s executive committee confirmed in December 2008 that participation in the London 2012 tournament will not affect the status of the home nations. However—I say this before everybody jumps to their feet—FIFA also recognises the concern within the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish football associations that that may not be the case. I am happy to make public the fact that FIFA has received letters from all three associations stating that they will not support, or enter discussions about entering, a GB football team in 2012. Sport is a
devolved issue. It is therefore ultimately for the individual home country football associations to decide what course to take.
It would be wrong—perhaps, like the hon. Member for Thurrock, my Celtic influences are coming into play—for the Government, the FA or London 2012 to do anything that would impinge on the independence of those football associations. Ultimately, I see no option but to leave them to make their own decision.
Tom Brake: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the individual associations should confirm that they have considered the question of women’s and Paralympic football, and the potential to increase participation, before deciding whether to engage in discussions on the subject?
Hugh Robertson: I thank the hon. Gentleman. That is two out of two. I shall continue.
On a personal basis, I absolutely respect the decision, but I regret that things have come to this. As a result, both able-bodied and Paralympic athletes will miss out. A fantastic opportunity to showcase the women’s and Paralympic games, with all the benefits for increased participation, will be lost. Broadcasting exposure and commercial revenue will be forfeited. All those things will happen because politics has got in the way.
Unless a solution can be found, through a pre-qualification tournament or some other form of compromise, the BOA will enter a GB team, but it will contain only English players. I presume that Irish, Scottish and Welsh players will be invited to put their names forward, but that they will face possible sanctions from their home country associations if they play.
As an aside, and in case anyone else was thinking of doing so, I mention that the last two high-profile athletes to defy the Government over an Olympics political issue—Sebastian Coe and Colin Moynihan—are now chairman of the London organising committee and chairman of the national Olympic committee respectively.
Andrew Mackinlay: I do not understand why, but the hon. Gentleman said that the British Olympic Association will probably submit a team. My point is about modalities; it is technical. A team cannot be submitted without an association, and we do not have a United Kingdom association. Many people are being foolish and fudging the issue. The BOA cannot do it. There has to be an association, but it does not exist.
Hugh Robertson: I asked the British Olympic Association that question yesterday, and I think that the hon. Gentleman may not necessarily be correct. In Beijing, a home nation committee took over in many sports; it then morphed into a UK body—or a Team GB body. In this case, I guess that the BOA will invite the home nations to put forward players but that the Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh will refuse because they believe that it will compromise their independence. As a result, the team will go forward under a Team GB banner, but will contain only English players.
As I said at the beginning, I very much regret that this has become such a contentious public matter, and the way that it has been handled by the Governments in London and Edinburgh has made a difficult situation worse. However, whatever my personal feelings, I
acknowledge that the Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh FAs are entirely within their rights to refuse to release their players, with the result that as of today the GB team selected by the BOA will contain only English players—the point made by the hon. Member for Thurrock. We are still more than three years from London 2012, so there is ample time for a compromise to be reached, if the will exists to find one. However, after this morning’s debate I suspect that is probably a vain hope.
The really sad part of all of this is that as things stand the athletes affected will be denied a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to compete in front of their home crowd at the world’s largest sporting event. Whatever one’s view, that is a great shame.
10.49 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Pope. This has been an interesting debate in terms of the emotions engendered by the argument. I congratulate the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) on raising the issue, even though I may disagree with everything that he said. However, it gives us an opportunity to air some important issues.
I agree with the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent (Hugh Robertson) as I, too, am sad that we have reached this position, because at the end of the day it is the athletes who will suffer, which as sports Minister I regret. The whole ethos of sport is to bring people together and to ensure that we all value sport and our passion for it, whether for individual athletes or teams. Sport can and should gel us all together. We saw that in Beijing and with the merging of Olympians and Paralympians during the successful parade through London, when the whole UK celebrated their success. I do not want to lose the passion of those athletes.
It is not arrogant for the Government to say, “This is what’s going to happen.” As the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent said, the situation has arisen because we are hosting the Olympic games in 2012. A fantastic event—the world’s leading sporting event—will be in London in 2012, and we want the whole UK to benefit, in the same way that we want it to benefit from the Commonwealth games in Glasgow in 2014. Furthermore, during the coming decade of sport, we want to ensure that international events are held all over the UK, so that we can inspire future generations, and teach them the value of sport and what it can mean to individuals.
Those considerations, and not some narrow, nationalistic worry about the potential for the home nations to lose their identities, should be the driving force behind our decisions. I have not heard anything in this debate to suggest that the home nations will lose their identity. In fact, we have heard to the contrary, as the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) said. We have received written assurances and minutes of meetings from FIFA stating that a Great Britain football team will not affect the individuality of the three home nations.
Pete Wishart:
I know that the Minister is coming on to those assurances—we will hear them all once again—but why does he think that the Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh football associations, as well as pundits,
commentators and former executives of FIFA and UEFA are all against the proposal? It is not a nationalist agenda, but a footballing agenda. In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, people believe that thoroughly. Why are they wrong, and the Minister right?
Mr. Sutcliffe: I am not saying that they are all wrong. They are seeking assurances that the individuality of the home nations will not be affected, which I understand and respect. It is their right to respond to the situation. However, I am concerned—that is why I intervened earlier—because there has always been, and will continue to be, a threat to that individuality, given the way that FIFA is evolving, with new nations coming in. That threat will always be there.
Mr. MacNeil: Surely the responsibility of a UK Government Minister should be to support the wishes—in this case—of three in four of the football associations, not to try to railroad them in a particular direction.
Mr. Sutcliffe: I disagree with the hon. Gentleman; in this instance, the role of the sports Minister is to ensure that the UK Olympic games are the most successful ever and to get the mass participation in sport of everybody in the UK. I assume that we all agree on the power of sport.
The argument boils down to this: the British Olympic Association, not the Government, proposed a Team GB, as was its right. We are the host nations and we can have a Great Britain football team in the men’s and women’s games and in the Paralympic games. That is our right as the host nation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said, it will be the biggest football occasion in this country since 1966 when we hosted the World cup. More than 2 million people attended the Beijing games. The 2012 football games will be played throughout the UK, and it would be a farce for qualification games to be played in Wales and Scotland without British participation.
Mr. MacNeil: Will the Minister use his great office of state to increase participation by encouraging and advocating the possibility for four teams, instead of one team, rather than railroading football associations? That would result in greater participation.
Mr. Sutcliffe: That could have been the argument had it been proposed earlier, but the situation has moved on. The International Olympic Committee, which runs the games, has awarded them to London—we now have an organising committee—and has given us an opportunity that we should not turn down, for the reasons we have given.
The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire said that he feels that football in the Olympics is devalued and not taken seriously. That is not true, judging from participation at Beijing, where leading players from Argentina and Brazil played. They believed that football had value, as do I. The Olympics are the greatest sporting event on earth, which is why a number of sports are applying to join.
The kernel of the argument is that we want assurances from FIFA, the IOC and other bodies to ensure that we do not do anything to damage the current situation. I accept that, and that is what we are trying to do. We
have held meetings with Sepp Blatter and FIFA, and have correspondence stating that the proposal will not affect the individuality of the home nations. However, the home nations have not helped themselves by writing to the BOA stating that they do not think that football should be part of the Olympic games. That in itself will threaten the individuality of the home nations.
I urge caution in resolving the issues with the IOC, the BOA and FIFA. FIFA considers its sport an integral part of the Olympic games and their legacy. As the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington said, we will do everything possible to ensure that the assurances we have received are worth while.
Returning to the original point, we do not want the athletes to suffer, which is what will happen if we continue on our current course.
Hugh Robertson: Will the Minister clear up a narrow, technical point? This country is committed to a GB football team in 2012. As I understand it, the BOA will invite all home nations to put forward players for that team. If any home nation feels that its independence is under threat—whether that is right or wrong—and decides, therefore, not to put forward players, will we field a GB football team in 2012 containing players only from home nation associations happy to put forward players? In other words, might the GB team consist only of English players?
Mr. Sutcliffe: That is correct; sadly, that will happen unless we can resolve the issue.
Albert Owen:
Further to the question from the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent (Hugh Robertson), would it help if the letters that the Minister has received from FIFA were made public so that we can see a written submission from FIFA with cast-iron guarantees that a one-off tournament will not threaten the identity of the national football associations? Can my hon. Friend envisage a compromise if the Welsh, Scottish
and Northern Ireland associations do not proceed? For example, what if no sanctions were to be taken against individual players?
Mr. Sutcliffe: That is an excellent point. We attempted just such a compromise. We said, “We understand the position of the home nations, but do not take sanctions against players who want to play,” but we could not get that assurance. We need to find a way through that intransigence. As the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent said, the reality is that there will be a team—the BOA, not the Government, has said that—and we want it to be as representative of the UK as possible. We will work with home associations, whose right it is to respond independently and as they want.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn was quite right about protection. The Football Association has tried to modernise our approach. I do not want to lay blame or attack individual associations, but we should consider the point raised by the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington about the impact on the women’s game and disabled people, and on greater inclusion.
Adam Price: In criticising the national associations and calling them intransigent, is the Minister not infringing on their autonomy? What is FIFA’s attitude to such political intervention?
Mr. Sutcliffe: I said that it is the right of those bodies to do the things that they are doing; I just happen to think that they are wrong. As UK sports Minister, I regularly meet Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland sports Ministers. It is important that we do not allow sport to become a political football and that we listen. However, we must deal with the facts as they are, and the fact is that there will be a team in 2012. I hope that we can have a team that represents the whole UK. That would be the best way forward, but if it cannot be achieved—
Mr. Greg Pope (in the Chair): Order. We now move on to the next debate.
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