| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
12.30 am
We have had a good debate. I want now to deal with the points raised by the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Stewart Hosie) in respect of his amendment 12. Amendment 12 seeks to require the Government, before the 2009 pre-Budget report, to publish anticipated yields from alcohol duty and the estimated levels of duty, based on alcohol content, that would need to be levied to maintain that yield. Estimates from the pre-Budget report are available. In 2008-09, spirit duty is estimated to raise £2.4 billion, wine £2.7 billion and beer and cider combined £3.4 billion. Many spirit products produced in the UK are exported and are therefore not subject to UK excise duty. For example, more than 90 per cent. of Scotch whisky is exported, and the level of Scotch whisky exports grew by 8 per cent. in 2008.
Angela Eagle: I have been here for two and a half hours, and the hon. Gentleman has not been here for the debate. [Hon. Members: “Give way!”] If the hon. Gentleman is desperate, I shall be only too happy to give way.
Mr. Reid: I am grateful to the Exchequer Secretary. She mentioned exports, but the unfairness of the British duty system, whereby spirits are taxed at a higher rate per unit of alcohol than wines, means that when we complain about other countries unfairly discriminating against whisky in favour of their local brew, they can point to our unfair system. Why, therefore, can we not continue with the system that was in place when the Prime Minister was Chancellor, under which spirits duty was frozen?
Angela Eagle: We thought that, for fairness, it was right to have 2 per cent. across the board this time round, although I note that 90 per cent. of Scotch whisky is exported and that the level of Scotch whisky exports grew by 8 per cent. last year.
European rules apply duty in direct proportion to alcohol content for beer and spirits, but the rules do not allow the same application to wine and cider, which accounts for some of the disparities that the right hon. Member for Wokingham talked about. Given those explanations, I ask hon. Members not to press either amendment.
Mr. Reid: I want to support amendments 10 and 12.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Nicholas Brown) claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).
Mr. Reid: On a point of order, Sir Michael.
The Second Deputy Chairman (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I now have to decide whether to accept a closure motion. The Minister is only 10 minutes into her response, so perhaps it would not be reasonable to accept a closure motion at this juncture.
Angela Eagle: I had actually finished my remarks on the amendment, Sir Michael.
Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.
The Committee divided: Ayes 275, Noes 56.
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Farrelly, Paul
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, rh Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Lynne
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, rh Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, rh Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, rh Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Geraldine
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stunell, Andrew
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Ayes:
Helen Jones and
Ms Dawn Butler
NOES
Afriyie, Adam
Amess, Mr. David
Barrett, John
Binley, Mr. Brian
Bone, Mr. Peter
Brady, Mr. Graham
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Burt, Lorely
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Davies, Philip
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Duddridge, James
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Foster, Mr. Don
George, Andrew
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harris, Dr. Evan
Hayes, Mr. John
Hemming, John
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Horwood, Martin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Howell, John
Hunter, Mark
Kawczynski, Daniel
Lamb, Norman
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Mason, John
Moore, Mr. Michael
Mulholland, Greg
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
Öpik, Lembit
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Angus
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Simpson, David
Smith, Sir Robert
Spink, Bob
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Weir, Mr. Mike
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Wishart, Pete
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. Alan Reid and
Dan Rogerson
Question accordingly agreed to.
Question put accordingly, That the amendment be made.
Amendment proposed: 12, in clause 11, page 5, line 37, at end insert—
‘(8) The Treasury will, prior to the 2009 Pre-budget statement—
(a) publish an assessment of the level of revenue yield anticipated from alcohol liquor duty based on it being levied on the rates of duty in this section, and
(b) publish an assessment of the level of alcohol liquor duty required to be levied on each type of drink on an equitable basis based on the alcohol content to generate the same level of revenue yield.’.— (Stewart Hosie.)
The Committee divided: Ayes 41, Noes 272.
AYES
Barrett, John
Binley, Mr. Brian
Brady, Mr. Graham
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Burt, Lorely
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Philip
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Foster, Mr. Don
George, Andrew
Goldsworthy, Julia
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harris, Dr. Evan
Hemming, John
Horwood, Martin
Hosie, Stewart
Hughes, Simon
Hunter, Mark
Jones, Lynne
Lamb, Norman
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Moore, Mr. Michael
Mulholland, Greg
Öpik, Lembit
Reid, Mr. Alan
Robertson, Angus
Rogerson, Dan
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Smith, Sir Robert
Spink, Bob
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Weir, Mr. Mike
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Wishart, Pete
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:
John Mason and
Hywel Williams
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Farrelly, Paul
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harris, Mr. Tom
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, rh Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Lynne
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, rh Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, rh Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, rh Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Simpson, David
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Geraldine
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:
Helen Jones and
Ms Dawn Butler
Question accordingly negatived.
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Hands: As we had started the debate on the interesting but fundamentally flawed Liberal Democrat amendment—the Conservatives also felt unable to support the interesting amendment tabled by the Scottish National party—it was unfortunate that the closure motion prevented five or six other Back Benchers from participating in it.
The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means: Order. First, the last thing that we must do in a clause stand part debate is rerun amendments that have already been debated. Secondly, whether or not a closure motion is accepted is entirely a matter for the Chair, and I suggest that the hon. Gentleman does not stray into that region.
Mr. Hands: You are, of course, quite right, Sir Michael. I shall thus discuss the clause itself, on which I do not propose to speak for as long as I did on the amendments. After all, it is well past closing time—or at least the old-style 11 pm closing time. However, we must at least briefly examine the devastating impact of the Government’s approach to pubs, breweries and other industries across the UK. I know that that is felt keenly by Members from across this House in terms of the pubs, clubs and jobs in their constituencies.
As I said, duty levels are not the only answer. We propose changes to the duty regime as part of a package of wider measures aimed at tackling binge and under-age drinking, which we need to look at. The Committee needs to register its opposition to the Government’s approach of penalising all drinkers, and we therefore call on the Committee to oppose clause 11.
1 am
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |