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Tackling climate change is, as the Foreign Secretary said, absolutely critical. Although we have seen some developments to prepare for Copenhagen under the Czech presidency, I have to say that I have been disappointed by their lack of depth and speed. I only hope that the Swedish presidency will take those issues forward much further. The EU has a critical role to play in Copenhagen, so I hope that the Foreign Secretary will talk to his Swedish counterparts at this European Council to encourage them to go as far as possible in tackling the vested interests in some EU member states that are getting in the way of a much stronger deal in Copenhagen and a more powerful EU voice in it.
We have rightly debated some of the external affairs issues that will crop up at the European Council. The right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks tackled the issue of Burma in detail. I think that the EU needs to make it clear to the Burmese military junta that if it does not allow the opposition parties the freedom to campaign and if it starts imprisoning their leaders, the credibility of the elections promised for 2010 will be undermined absolutely. We must be strong in our warnings that if that happens, it will lead to even further isolation and even stronger sanctions against the Burmese Government.
I agree with much of what the Foreign Secretary said about Afghanistan and Pakistan. On Pakistan, we need to do even more to ensure that the humanitarian aid gets through to the 2 million or more refugees created by the conflict in the Swat valley. There are too many reports of that humanitarian aid failing to get through.
We must also consider the institutional aspects to the European Council. We have debated the Lisbon treaty and where it will go. I think we need to listen to the Irish Government and see whether we can accommodate them—of course we should. If there is talk of protocols to deal with the concerns of the Irish people, and the Irish Government’s view of those concerns, we should be supportive. I have to say, however, that many of the concerns brought up at the last referendum were, of course, bogus ones, because issues about neutrality, abortion and the right to life were nowhere near the terms of treaty of Lisbon, as we all know.
Mr. Cash: If I may say so, I think that the hon. Gentleman is effectively insulting the Irish people by referring to the concerns as bogus. Anyone who knows anything about the issue—I am wondering whether he does—knows the reality. As a confidential memo handed over only yesterday to other member states—the Foreign Secretary knows about this, as do I as a member of the European Scrutiny Committee—clearly indicates, the legal guarantees being provided are worthless in the context of treaty change. The hon. Gentleman referred to protocol; if what he said were true, it would actually change the treaty, so he should just stop insulting the Irish people.
Mr. Davey: I was not insulting the Irish people, of course, and I am not surprised that the hon. Gentleman disagrees with me on this issue. What he cannot do is point to anything in the Lisbon treaty that would undermine Ireland’s neutrality or Irish views on the right to life, or force Ireland away from its current laws.
We have had some debate about the Conservative position on the Lisbon treaty and what it might be in various hypothetical situations. My suspicion is that those on the Conservative Front Bench would very much like to see Lisbon ratified, because if it is not, they will have to hold a referendum. Can you imagine, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the first act of a putative new Conservative Government being to hold a referendum on a treaty that the rest of Europe will almost certainly have ratified? I think it is a quite extraordinary position that would massively set back the Conservative party’s foreign policy. It is a ludicrous position. Most people are focused on what will happen if Lisbon is ratified, so what on earth does the phrase “We will not let matters rest” actually mean? Today we have yet again had no explanation today. The issue becomes more interesting, if not slightly frightening, if we contemplate what would happen if Lisbon were not ratified and the Conservatives had to deliver on their promise.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): I notice the relish with which the hon. Gentleman contemplates the discomfort that he believes the Conservative party may feel if the matter has to go to referendum, but does not his speech suggest that he is afraid of a referendum? He wants to try to reassure the Irish so that they will accept the Lisbon treaty and not protest as they did last time, and he does not want a referendum here, yet he claims that the people of the UK want to connect with Europe. Is not the best way to connect people with Europe to give them a say on whether they want further European integration?
Mr. Davey: We have certainly debated that many times, and the hon. Gentleman will know that we have just campaigned on a manifesto urging a referendum on the in-out question. That is our position.
Let me deal with the other specific issues that I hope the Foreign Secretary will raise at the European Council. He mentioned immigration, which I understand will be debated with respect to problems in the Mediterranean; I think that it is on the agenda at the insistence of Greece. However, there are concerns in this country about the way in which the whole system works. There are loopholes in the immigration system that affect this country, and we need support, partnership and co-operation with our European partners if we are to tackle them.
I am thinking in particular of what is known as the Lille loophole. People buy a ticket to Lille at Brussels and, rather than getting off the train at Lille, stay on it and come to the United Kingdom. Buying a ticket to Lille means that they need not have their passports with them; they are out of the jurisdiction of the UK Border Agency, and when they arrive in the United Kingdom—no doubt having destroyed any documentation that they have—they are not even checked in the normal way. The Lille loophole should be causing real concern, but although it has been raised on the Floor of the House by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat Members, the Government have done nothing to deal with it. It constitutes a challenge to our immigration affairs, and it is time that the Government took it seriously and raised it with our European partners.
I was expecting to hear from the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks some discussion of whom the Conservative party would form a group with in the
European Parliament. As we had expected, the right hon. Gentleman made some fantastic jokes at the Foreign Secretary’s expense, but it depressed me slightly that he did not deal with an issue that affects his own party. He will have to do so: he will not be able to escape this for much longer.
The Conservatives’ notion of leaving the European People’s party strikes me as bizarre. We should remind ourselves that the EPP is the party of Angela Merkel, President Sarkozy and Prime Minister Berlusconi. It represents the centre right, the mainstream of Conservative opinion in Europe, but the Conservative party wants to leave it. That has been criticised by many Conservatives—by former Foreign Secretaries, by the grandees and by Conservative MEPs—but how does it appear to those in the capitals of Europe? What are people in Paris, Bonn, Rome and Madrid thinking about a possible Conservative Government? They must think that the Conservative party has taken leave of its senses.
The Conservatives should think about how this looks in Washington. President Obama, who wants to reach out and engage with the regime in Tehran, looks at the modern Conservative party and sees that it will not even reach out and engage with Conservatives in Europe. If there is ever to be a Conservative Government, what influence will that Government have? Just imagine the first meeting between a putative Prime Minister Cameron and President Obama. President Obama would say “I really need your help: we need to get these Europeans to help us with this issue and that issue. You must have some influence. Oh—you have left the European People’s party, so you have no influence whatsoever.” A party that may become a Conservative Government is forming a foreign policy which will do this country down. [Interruption.] The Conservative Members who are shouting “Rubbish” know in their hearts that they are going into a general election with the most ludicrous foreign policy ever to be put to the British people.
Mr. Davey: I happily give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Bone: I was following the hon. Gentleman’s speech with some interest until I lost the thread. Why should a Conservative party that is not federalist sit with a group that is federalist? My right hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron), who made this promise as leader of our party, is talking common sense and has the support of the British people. That is why this is happening.
Mr. Davey: Given that the hon. Gentleman is a member of the Better Off Out group, I am not surprised that he takes that view.
Mr. Davey: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman has left the group. The Conservatives are in favour of leaving lots of groups at the moment.
Mr. Bone: I am not a member of the Better Off Out group.
Mr. Davey: Perhaps there has been a resignation that we did not hear about.
Not only will the Conservative party have no influence in Washington and many other capitals in the world, but they will have some very odd bedfellows. We do not know the details, because the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks was rather frit today. That is unusual for him: he normally takes things on the chin and is not afraid of debate. However, he was not able to say with whom the Conservatives will form a group. He knows that they will have to find MEPs from six other member states. [Hon. Members: “Seven.”] Presumably the Conservative party will be part of the group that it wants to form.
We ought to know who those MEPs will be, and which countries they will come from. We have been told that it is likely that the Conservatives will want to do a deal with the Law and Justice party in Poland. That is quite surprising, because Civic Platform, which is a centre-right party, believes in much of what the Conservatives—and, indeed, the Liberal Democrats—believe, it is in government, and it would seem to be a natural bedfellow for the Conservatives. Moreover, its Foreign Minister, Mr. Sikorski, was a member of the Bullingdon club. One would have thought that at least the right hon. Member for Witney could get on with a former member of the Bullingdon club, but apparently he is not extreme enough, so the Conservatives will have to do a deal with the Law and Justice party.
We should bear in mind that, as the Foreign Secretary said, the Law and Justice party is an anti-gay party. It is a homophobic party. When its leader was mayor of Warsaw, he banned a Gay Pride parade, but allowed a “parade of normality”. Those are the sort of people with whom the Conservative party wants to do a deal—and I have not said anything about the anti-Semitic views of the Law and Justice party. The Foreign Secretary read out a quotation from one of its senior members which included an appalling insult to the current President of the United States. If the right hon. Member for Witney were to become Prime Minister, how would he explain that to the President? The Conservatives are in a ludicrous position, and they know it.
Mr. David Wilshire (Spelthorne) (Con): I apologise for not hearing the beginning of the hon. Gentleman’s clearly uncontroversial speech. He has referred to separate groups. Would he care to explain how the following comes about? In the Council of Europe, the British Conservatives are in a group of their own. While it was the third largest—and bigger than the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe—it was very successful and made a great impact. Very recently, the hon. Gentleman’s party overtook us by one or two members, but before that we had more members, notwithstanding what he has said about separate groups. He has spoken of bedfellows. Would he care to comment on why his party overtook us, and how it manages to justify the fact that a large number of Ukrainians—those great champions of democracy and human rights—have joined its group?
Mr. Davey: I cannot, because I do not know the details. However, I believe that the Conservative party is in bed with members of Mr. Putin’s party in the Council of Europe, so I think that the hon. Gentleman ought to be slightly careful before giving such examples.
I will not list all the various parties to which the Conservatives appear to be talking, because the Foreign Secretary did that very well. He spoke of the For Fatherland and Freedom party of Latvia, which has Nazi sympathisers as members. This really is quite an interesting position for a so-called liberal Conservative party to adopt. We look forward very much to Conservative Members’ coming clean. Apparently there was to be a press conference this afternoon at which they were going to present the deal, but it has been cancelled, so I do not think that they have managed to stitch up the deal yet.
Mr. Goodwill: As a former deputy co-ordinator for the Group of the European People’s Party and European Democrats in the European Parliament, I can say that I spent most of my time negotiating with the smaller groups, which often held us to ransom in order to secure a majority, and that rather than being marginalised by being the fourth biggest group in the Parliament, in many instances we had more influence than a large group whose rapporteur represented our views while not actually agreeing with us. I think that the British Conservatives will be in a very strong position in the European Parliament. The hon. Gentleman should not speculate about who might be in the group; he should wait and see who will be in it.
Mr. Davey: I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are waiting, with great interest. However, he must bear in mind that if a group is to be formed, it must include MEPs from six other member states. We have been looking around to try to discover who they might be—as, no doubt, have others—and I must tell him that they will include some very odd people. I do not think that he would enjoy being the whip in that grouping.
Unfortunately, we were not able to address European issues in the European election campaign—partly because the expenses fiasco crowded out other debate—and one of the reasons why that disappointed me was that we wanted to discuss matters such as crime. We think there is a hugely strong case for co-operation at the European level on crime. We are witnessing the rise of international organised crime. We are experiencing drug trafficking, human trafficking and gun smuggling, the impact of technology with cybercrime and appalling things such as internet paedophile rings, and international terrorism, so it is clear that there are international sources of crime on a new and massive scale. By their very nature, we cannot, of course, deal with them by ourselves. We have to work with other countries to tackle them, and there is no better way of doing so than from within the European Union.
Mr. Cash: What worse possible route could we adopt than enlarging the European Union to bring in Croatia and Albania? Albania has human trafficking and is a centre of cocaine in Europe—it is the trade route for cocaine. Does the hon. Gentleman seriously think that bringing those countries into the EU will be of any value or use to us whatever? Is it not time he just woke up?
Mr. Davey:
I am afraid it is time the hon. Gentleman woke up, because we are at present subjected to the appalling effects of that trade when we can do nothing
about it as those countries are outside the EU. Trying to ensure that we can influence them by their coming into the EU is a much better way forward.
The EU is trying to push forward the crime agenda and tackle crime in many ways, such as through the European arrest warrant, which my colleague Graham Watson piloted through the European Parliament, and through Europol and Eurojust. We have had some fantastic benefits from this: extradition times have come down from 18 months to 43 days, and the costa del crime in Spain has effectively been got rid of thanks to the European arrest warrant. If colleagues doubt what I say, I can assure them that many people involved in tackling serious crime also think that this is the case. I could give many quotes, but let me give just one. Robert Lauder, regional director of the Serious Organised Crime Agency, said that
“historically, British criminals used Spain to escape justice. They found it simple to avoid the attention of UK law enforcement agencies. But the advent of the European Arrest Warrant and improved communications has made it increasingly difficult to evade UK courts.”
Therefore, it is clear that if we are serious about tackling such serious crimes, we have to be in favour of European co-operation, but unfortunately the Conservatives have voted against these ideas: they voted against the European arrest warrant, Eurojust and Europol. That leaves them very exposed on this issue. There are 335 criminals who have been arrested and brought back to this country under the European arrest warrant. They include serious criminals such as murderers, rapists and paedophiles. Without the European arrest warrant, it is very likely that they would not have been brought to justice. I therefore say to the Conservative party in all seriousness that it will have to review its position. Were the Conservatives to come to power and were the Lisbon treaty to be in place and ratified, they would have choices to make, because all these measures to do with co-operation on law and order would then be subject to opt-ins. We would start afresh because this would become a new pillar. A future Conservative Government would therefore have to say whether they were going to opt back into co-operation in respect of the European arrest warrant and through Europol and Eurojust.
Let us imagine what would happen if a future Conservative Government said, “We’re not going to co-operate.” In that case, they would be refusing to co-operate with other European countries using these well-developed institutions and methods. That would be absurd. I look forward to having debates in the general election campaign—when it eventually comes—in order to expose the Conservatives’ bizarre position, through which they are being incredibly soft on the most serious criminals in the world.
Mr. Bone: Human trafficking is a serious issue. I am a member of the all-party group on trafficking of women and children, and one issue that has come up is that young women are trafficked from other EU countries into this country quite legally and then forced into prostitution because there are not border controls for EU citizens. How would the hon. Gentleman address that problem?
Mr. Davey: Well, we can address it only by co-operating with other EU countries; I would have thought that that was self-evident.
The European Council is very important. We need to drive home on the economic agenda, and also on the climate change agenda. I hope we can find a way out of the problems that we have got ourselves into over institutional change. I hope we can use this chance to take forward a very positive agenda on Europe, which my party would support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. Before I call the hon. Member for West Bromwich, West (Mr. Bailey), I want to give notice that the time limit will have to come down if we are to give every hon. Member the opportunity to speak. Therefore, after the next speech the limit will come down to 15 minutes—and I hope that the hon. Gentleman might also try to work within that framework.
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