House of Commons
Wednesday 17 June 2009
The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock
Prayers
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
Scotland
The Secretary of State was asked—
Automotive Industry
1. Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire, North) (Lab): What recent discussions he has had with representatives of the car manufacturing and trading sectors in Scotland on Government support for the industry. [279144]
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Jim Murphy): Mr. Speaker, good morning, and thank you for all the guidance that you have given me and so many others in all parts of the House over the years.
I have met Scottish manufacturers, including representatives from the car industry, to discuss the car scrappage scheme. I have also met people from Scottish companies that work in climate change technologies, which are, of course, an enormous growth area in Scotland.
Jim Sheridan: I share the comments made by the Secretary of State for Scotland on how welcome you have been, Mr. Speaker, to us on the Labour Benches.
I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. The car scrappage scheme is helping manufacturing and UK consumers. However, there remains genuine concern among car retailers, such as John McGuire in my constituency, about the Treasury’s recent decision on the vehicle excise duty refund. Will the Secretary of State make representations to the Treasury to get that decision overturned?
Mr. Murphy: My hon. Friend has raised that matter with the Treasury on a number of occasions. The gentleman whom he mentions, Mr. McGuire at Phoenix Honda, operates a company in his constituency but is a constituent of mine, so he has also come to my surgeries. Mr. McGuire raises important points on behalf of his company and many others across Scotland. I know that my hon. Friend will continue to raise the matter with the Treasury. If there is anything that I can do to assist in that, I will of course be happy to do it.
John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): The Secretary of State mentioned that he has had meetings with people in the renewable energy sector. What conversations has he had with his colleague, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on securing some of the £400 million that has been announced for that sector? Has the Secretary of State given particular thought to how the money might be used for marine renewable energy in the Pentland firth?
Mr. Murphy: The hon. Gentleman has raised that important issue with me in the past, and I look forward to visiting his constituency in the parliamentary recess to discuss the points that he raises about the Pentland firth. I have spoken to the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the issues. The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that about a third of the £750 million strategic investment fund established by the Government is to be earmarked for low-carbon investment. We now have to see what opportunities for the type of marine technology that he mentions are provided by that fund, the additional sources of Government support and the private sector. There is an enormous opportunity for a green industrial revolution in Scotland and beyond.
Mr. Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for all your kindness during the years in which you have been in the Chair.
I may have to declare an interest, as I have a car that is more than 10 years old, and the Donohoe household is looking for a new one. May I ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to give me some indication of the number of applications made under the scrappage scheme?
Mr. Murphy: There is certainly great evidence to be had from car dealers across Scotland. When I visited Arnold Clark in Stirling, along with my right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs. McGuire), people there were saying how popular the scheme was. The Government are working to provide specific figures shortly, but Douglas Robertson, the chief executive of the Scottish Motor Trade Association, has said:
“The arrival of the government backed scrappage scheme has without doubt affected Scotland’s figures. Traditionally Scotland has always had, on average, the oldest cars in the UK so it is to be expected that we should show the most benefit from the scheme.”
That is the intention behind the scheme; it is a kick-start for the motor industry, and it is supportive of the environmental industries as well.
Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): The Secretary of State will know that manufacturing industry, including the car industry, is vital to the recovery of not only the Scottish but the United Kingdom, economy. Is he confident that the Government are not loading additional burdens on manufacturing and industry, at a time when competitiveness is very important? Secondly, does he believe that the banking system, which has benefited from huge taxpayer largesse, is playing its role in ensuring the success and survival of manufacturing industry?
Mr. Murphy:
The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point. The car industry is of strategic importance across the UK. There are about half a million people employed in the motor retail sector across the UK, so there is a challenge not just in Scotland, but throughout the
United Kingdom. We always have to bear in mind the balance of regulation and bureaucracy in the private sector, as well as in the public sector, and the need to do so is particularly acute at a time of economic difficulty. Along with the rest of the Government, we are seized of the need to ensure that, where possible, regulation has as light a touch as possible on the motor industry and others, particularly at this difficult time.
Mr. Ben Wallace (Lancaster and Wyre) (Con): Contrary to the Government’s spin on the car scrappage scheme, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has said that new car registrations in May fell at an annual rate of 25 per cent.—almost no change from the previous month. This month Ministers had to concede that four months after Lord Mandelson launched his £2.3 billion automotive assistance programme not a single penny from the scheme has been received by struggling firms. On a day when it is revealed that the number of people claiming jobseeker’s allowance in Scotland has doubled in one year alone, is it not about time that the Government matched their words with actions and offered real help to hard-working families across the country, rather than just headlines and spin?
Mr. Murphy: There we have it: the authentic voice of the Scottish Conservative party, via Lancaster. The hon. Gentleman neither understands nor has any real sympathy for the people of Scotland. Of course there are real difficulties in the Scottish and UK economy, but he should stop playing politics and remember that when the Conservatives were in power their message was “Get on your bike and search for work” and that unemployment was a price worth paying. We will do everything we can to help Scotland through the current recession. We have looked at the lessons of the recession of the 1980s, when communities were destroyed and families were scourged by unemployment across the generations, and we are determined that there will not be a generational consequence of this recession in Scotland.
Public Expenditure
2. Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): How much public expenditure there was in Scotland per capita in 2008-09. [279145]
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Jim Murphy): The Calman commission considered these issues. In 2007-08 the total expenditure on services per head in Scotland was £9,032. Scotland and England have seen similar percentage increases over the past decade.
Mr. Bone: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that response, and I am delighted that he survived the night of the blunt knives. He is, of course, a highly respected Minister, but more importantly, he is a strong Unionist. My constituents have a third less public expenditure spent on them than is spent in Scotland. Does the Secretary of State share my concern that this imbalance weakens the Union?
Mr. Murphy:
I do not share the view that the Barnett formula or the method of funding across this disparate Kingdom in any way fuels extremism or is a cause of the vile British National party support. I do not agree with that. In Scotland, on occasion, there is complacency
about what happens in respect of the British National party. Of course we all know that its members are racists and anti-Semites, but their vote in Scotland has gone from near zero a decade ago to 27,000 at the European elections. The proportion of the BNP vote in Scotland was higher than the ethnic minority proportion of the population in Scotland as shown in the most recent census. Despite the complacency that sometimes creeps into Scottish politics, I believe that the BNP is also a Scottish problem.
Dr. Gavin Strang (Edinburgh, East) (Lab): Is it not clear that public investment is vital to the Scottish economy, especially at a time of recession? Is not one of the strengths of the Calman commission report the fact that its recommendations will give the Scottish Government of the day greater scope and flexibility over public spending?
Mr. Murphy: The Calman commission report has been welcomed across Scotland, except by a small number on the Opposition Benches. The Calman commission is about a different type of devolution. It is about making decisions that affect the people of Scotland in Scotland, and it delivers a stronger Scotland inside a stronger United Kingdom. It also ensures that there is greater responsibility in the Scottish Parliament for the decisions that it makes on spending.
Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): The Secretary of State is right to point out that the Calman commission recommended limited additional powers for the Scottish Parliament. The First Minister has offered to test that proposition and independence in a referendum. Does the Secretary of State not agree that the people should decide that?
Mr. Murphy: The SNP does not know which way to face on the report. We have the ludicrous sight of a nationalist party opposing more power for a Scottish Parliament. It could not be made up in any fantasy world of politics. Although the Scottish Government have confirmed again today, as I understand it, that they will not do the right thing by participating in the steering group on Calman, I ask the hon. Gentleman to have words with his friends in the Scottish National party and persuade them to do the sensible thing, and not to ban Scottish civil servants from helping to make the Calman commission the type of report that it can be—a report that strengthens the Union and delivers responsible devolution to Scotland.
Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): I add my tribute to you, Mr. Speaker, for your support and for your service.
Does the Secretary of State agree that the Calman commission is a very radical and positive step forward for Scotland, and that when the Scottish Parliament is spending public money, it should be accountable for it?
Mr. Murphy:
My hon. Friend and I were elected on the same day in 1997 on the manifesto commitment to deliver devolution for Scotland. Devolution has been a remarkable success, but it can be better still: more power for Scotland, doing what is best for Scotland and ensuring that Scotland stands strong within the United Kingdom. I believe—but, more importantly, most people
in Scotland share the view—that Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are stronger together in the United Kingdom. We would be weaker if we followed the SNP’s policies of separating Scotland from the rest of the United Kingdom.
Sir Menzies Campbell (North-East Fife) (LD): The Secretary of State will be well aware of the sterile exchanges in recent days about the future of public expenditure in the United Kingdom. Will he promise to put aside the smoke and mirrors and to level with the people of Scotland about the consequences for public expenditure of the inevitable and necessary efforts to reduce record deficits?
Mr. Murphy: As I have said from this Dispatch Box on numerous occasions, the budget for the Scottish Government has doubled over the past 10 years. The current First Minister has more than double the budget of Scotland’s first First Minister, Donald Dewar. Of course, the Scottish Government have to try to make savings, but even after any efficiencies they will have more money next year than they have this year, and that is because of continued Labour investment. We are determined to ensure that that money continues to go to Scotland to help Scottish families.
Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you for your unfailing friendship over many years. I appreciate it very much.
The Calman commission might be good for Scotland and it might be good for the United Kingdom. What is unacceptable, however, is that the Scottish Parliament has passed a resolution on the commission’s terms of reference but we have never done so. That is wrong. There is a United Kingdom, which I, in part, represent by representing an English constituency, and it really is unacceptable that Calman has not addressed our interests. I illustrate the fact by noting that we had a Secretary of State for Scotland, from a Scottish constituency, putting tolls on the Dartford-Thurrock bridge across the River Thames while tolls were being removed from the bridge across the River Clyde. We really have to address the West Lothian question; if we do not, other people will.
Mr. Murphy: There are many things for which I am responsible and there are occasional mistakes that I have made, but I have never introduced tolls on the bridge in my hon. Friend’s constituency and I have never even visited it. However, I take his remarks as a well intended invitation to go and do so.
Andrew Mackinlay: You might not get to the other side!
Mr. Murphy: I shall certainly get into my hon. Friend’s constituency, but I may not get out of it.
The important point that my hon. Friend makes, however, is about the devolution arrangements throughout the United Kingdom. The Calman commission is about strengthening the Scottish Parliament, but it is also very clear about strengthening the United Kingdom. I believe in the United Kingdom and think that the United Kingdom—the four nations of the UK—is the most successful gathering of nations anywhere in the world. Additional work needs to be done on constitutional renewal throughout the UK, and I look forward to my hon. Friend participating in those endeavours.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con): I am sure that over the past 30 years, Scottish questions will have been the highlight of your parliamentary calendar, Mr. Speaker. May I use this occasion not just to thank you and Mary for the personal kindness that you have always shown me, but to recognise the outstanding contribution that you have made to public life in Glasgow, in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom?
Does the Secretary of State agree that, unlike the First Minister of Scotland, the Calman commission based its analysis of public expenditure in Scotland on research and fact, rather than on soundbites? Does the Secretary of State welcome the commission’s suggestion of an updated needs assessment for the overall level of spending in each part of the United Kingdom? In the meantime, how does he envisage the welcome steering group that has been established taking forward the commission’s recommendations for reshaping the mechanism by which Scotland receives 60 per cent. of its public spending, and over which the Scottish Parliament has control?
Mr. Murphy: Of course, the Government and the Treasury continue to consider the wider needs assessment and keep it under review. I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues in the Scottish Parliament will serve on the steering group, which I will chair. It is about maintaining the consensus that has developed around Calman and building the momentum to deliver on the Calman proposals.
It is not too late for other parties to become involved in the process. Unfortunately, however, the Scottish National party has said that it rejects in principle the invitation to become involved. However, it is surely not too late for it to decide not to ban Scottish civil servants, to help make a reality of this work, which will require better working relationships. Doing that would be an early way of proving better intent on the part of the Scottish Government.
David Mundell: I thank the Secretary of State for that response. Does he agree that the past year has seen the three Unionist parties working together for the people of Scotland on the future of devolution, putting Scotland’s interests first? That is in stark contrast to the national conversation, which is the pursuit of a separatist agenda at public expense.
Does the Secretary of State agree that the First Minister is out of touch with what the people of Scotland want—a devolution settlement that works, not separation? In the best interests of the Scottish people, will the Secretary of State try one more time to persuade the First Minister to put aside petty party politics, join the mainstream of the constitutional debate and leave behind the backwater that is his national conversation?
Mr. Murphy: The fact is that there was an open invitation to the Scottish National party and the Scottish Government to become involved. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman thinks, but I reckon that there comes a point when it is rude to invite people continually to something in which they do not want to participate. So the next move is for the SNP Government. Even if they are not willing to do the sensible thing and participate in the steering group, they have to do the right thing and not block its progress. Scotland and the United Kingdom will never forgive a party that puts its interests before the needs of our country.
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