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6. Any proceedings on consideration and proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on the second day.
Programming committees
7. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings in Committee and on consideration and Third Reading.
Other proceedings
8. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed. —(Mark Tami.)
The House divided: Ayes 254, Noes 73.
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burgon, Colin
Butler, Ms Dawn
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Doran, Mr. Frank
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Etherington, Bill
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, rh John
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howells, rh Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, rh Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Linton, Martin
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, rh Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Todd, Mr. Mark
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Vaz, rh Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, rh Mr. Michael
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. Frank Roy and
Steve McCabe
NOES
Afriyie, Adam
Baldry, Tony
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Clark, Greg
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Philip
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Field, Mr. Mark
Garnier, Mr. Edward
George, Andrew
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gray, Mr. James
Green, Damian
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harper, Mr. Mark
Hayes, Mr. John
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hermon, Lady
Hoey, Kate
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holmes, Paul
Howarth, David
Howell, John
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Leech, Mr. John
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Moore, Mr. Michael
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Rennie, Willie
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Russell, Bob
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Smith, Sir Robert
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spink, Bob
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Thurso, John
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Watkinson, Angela
Webb, Steve
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Williams, Mark
Williams, Stephen
Willott, Jenny
Wilshire, Mr. David
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Noes:
James Duddridge and
Mr. Stephen Crabb
Question accordingly agreed to.
parliamentary standards bill (money)
Queen’s recommendation signified.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52)(1)(a)) ,
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Parliamentary Standards Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of—
(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, and
(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.— ( Mark Tami .)
Business without Debate
delegated legislation
Mr. Speaker: With the leave of the House, we shall take motions 4 to 6 together.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
That the draft Companies House Trading Fund (Amendment) Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 7 May, be approved.
That the draft Transfer of Functions of the Charity Tribunal Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 1 June, be approved.
That the draft Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (Designation of Participating Countries) (England, Wales and Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 6 May, be approved. —( Mark Tami.)
regulatory reform
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 18(1)),
That the draft Legislative Reform (Limited Partnerships) Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 2 June, be approved. — ( Mark Tami.)
committees
Mr. Speaker: With the leave of the House, we shall take motions 8 to 10 together.
That Mr John Heppell be discharged from the Children, Schools and Families Committee and Helen Southworth be added.
That Mr Mark Prisk be discharged from the Regulatory Reform Committee and John Penrose be added.
That John Penrose be discharged from the Work and Pensions Committee and Mr Mark Harper be added. —(Mr. McAvoy, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.)
Petition
Bullying (Armed Forces)
10.27 pm
Mr. Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester) (Lab): I have a petition from more than 160 residents and others in my constituency. The names were collected on the streets of Gloucester by a former member of the armed forces.
The Petition of those concerned about bullying in the Armed Forces,
Declares that bullying in the British Army should be stopped once and for all.
The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Secretary of State for Defence to take firm and positive action to ensure that bullying in the British Army is once and for all put a stop to now.
And the Petitioners remain, etc.
Asbestos in Homes
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn. —(Mr. Watts.)
10.27 pm
Mr. Michael Clapham (Barnsley, West and Penistone) (Lab): I am grateful to have secured this debate, because it is on an important and complex issue, and I believe that there is a common-sense way to deal with it. I am also pleased to see the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Jonathan Shaw), in his place, because he has some knowledge about asbestos in relation to social housing, which is what the debate is about.
The debate centres on a report that was recently compiled for the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians by two ladies, Linda Waldman and Heather Williams, who have brought to the attention of UCATT a number of important issues. I want to talk about three of them tonight. First, I want to draw to the Minister’s attention the size of the problem. Secondly, I want to refer to the research in the paper, because it relates to a great deal of the current research and gives us an opportunity to consider the recommendations that have been made. Thirdly, I want to suggest to the Minister that he might think about taking some of the recommendations on board, as they would bring about the changes required without a prohibitive capital outlay.
The Minister will be aware that asbestos causes a range of diseases: asbestosis, pleural plaques, pleural thickening, lung cancer and mesothelioma. The latter two diseases are unrelated to dosage, and it is thought that just a small exposure can lead to mesothelioma. I want to bring his attention to a study done by the British Lung Foundation in January last year, which set out to explore how wide people’s knowledge of the dangers of asbestos was. It commissioned a survey of 399 tradespeople in January 2008, and the respondents were made up of plumbers, builders, carpenters, electricians, joiners and gas fitters of varying ages. The results showed that a third of tradespeople admitted to not being well informed about asbestos, and three in 10 incorrectly believed that asbestos had now been removed from all UK buildings. There is great ignorance about asbestos. Last year, there were more than 2,000 mesothelioma deaths in the UK, which has led some to suggest that the UK has a mesothelioma epidemic.
The TUC argues that there are at least twice as many deaths from lung cancer caused by exposure to asbestos as there are mesothelioma deaths. Therefore, perhaps 6,000 to 8,000 deaths per year are caused by exposure to asbestos.
John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): The work done by my hon. Friend on this issue is incredible, but does he agree that we need to step up the campaign, as some people think that because asbestos has been banned, and some buildings have been stripped out, the problem is declining? However, there is a time lag with mesothelioma, so the number of cases will increase in the next 10 years, which people do not yet appreciate.
Mr. Clapham:
I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend. We will see the number of cases increase until about 2015, then plateau and fall way by 2050. Tradespeople
working on maintenance jobs who are exposed to asbestos are likely to develop mesothelioma, so it is important to consider what action might be taken on asbestos in houses.
As the Minister will know, asbestos was a common house building material from the 1930s until the 1980s. It was famed for its insulation and fire-proofing qualities. During that period, all forms of asbestos will have been used in house building: blue, brown and white. Blue and brown were banned in this country in 1985, and white was banned in November 1999. However, it is estimated that asbestos is in 90 per cent. of public sector housing, and the Health and Safety Executive estimates that 1.5 million workplaces contain asbestos.
There is ample evidence—this point is taken up by Waldman and Williams—that white asbestos is clearly associated with mesothelioma cancer. In that respect, I refer to a quote, which the two researchers used, from McCulloch and Tweedale’s book, “Defending the Indefensible: The Global Asbestos Industry and its Fight for Survival”:
“In reviewing the science, it is important to remember that asbestos is such a toxic material that even relatively trivial exposure can result in serious or fatal injury. For that reason, one might have expected physicians and allied scientists to have led the campaigns against the mineral and against the companies that produced it.
Yet...not only was the medical profession’s reaction to the asbestos hazard often feeble, but scientists have been among the industry’s most strident defenders. There are two reasons why that was so: corporate suppression and intimidation meant that criticism of the industry came at a price.
Another factor was the convergence of the economic, political, and social interests of the scientific establishment and commerce. Careers could be made from industry-sponsored research. No-one commissioned research on behalf of asbestos workers”.
I think that that sums up clearly what we face when we talk about asbestos in the housing industry.
Many of the people who will be exposed to asbestos are repairs and maintenance workers. As the Minister will be aware, local authorities, arm’s length management organisations and housing associations provide secure tenancies, covered by the Housing Act 1985, which set out landlords’ duties and tenants’ responsibilities. Repairs are undertaken when a property is vacated and designated as void, but because local authorities need to turn these vacant houses over very quickly, very little has been done to monitor those houses and either to remove asbestos or to ensure that its location is recorded. There are some exceptions, one notable example of which is the London borough of Havering. Its ALMO set out to work with residents and rather than trying to sweep the issue of asbestos under the carpet, it has engaged with residents in dealing with the management of asbestos in its property portfolio.
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