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Julie Morgan: I was able to visit Ireland with Action on Smoking and Health just before the new law was introduced there. Does my hon. Friend agree that it has been introduced in a pain-free way, that most of the costs have been paid by the tobacco manufacturers and that businesses have not suffered?
Gillian Merron: I agree with my hon. Friend and thank her for making that point.
Mrs. Moon: I attended a meeting with the Porthcawl cancer research campaign. The group gave me a petition collected from across the town, which said very strongly that people wanted the removal of tobacco advertising displays from our shops. It felt very strongly-it consisted of a group of smokers, ex-smokers and non-smokers-that the temptation was there, especially for young people, and that is something that we must remove.
Gillian Merron: I am grateful for my hon. Friend's support on that point.
We are particularly aware of the way in which the economic climate has affected small business, which is why we will not commence this legislation until 2011 for larger stores, and 2013 for smaller shops. We understand, too, that smaller convenience stores replace their tobacco gantries every five years or so, and thus for many of them changes could be made in the normal cycle. I want to reassure the House, however, that we will keep implementation under close review, and we will monitor levels of compliance and the effect of the policy.
We are working hard to support the convenience store sector, recognising that local shops are at the heart of our communities and can support our public health aims. For example, the "Change 4 Life" scheme, which brings fresh fruit and vegetables to the fore in the most disadvantaged communities, has been so successful that some shops have chosen to fund themselves to join in. There is an opportunity for retailers to become an active part of a movement for better health, and I therefore urge the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) not to press his amendment.
New clauses 1 and 4 deal with proxy purchasing. We all agree that reducing children's access to tobacco is a priority, and I very much appreciate the intent behind the new clauses. However, creating an offence for proxy purchasing of tobacco would be difficult to implement and enforce. The new clauses would require proof of intent at the point of purchase, and proof of a young person asking an adult to buy tobacco on their behalf.
Gillian Merron: Will the hon. Lady allow me to make the case?
That evidence would be needed to secure a conviction. While there has been a proxy purchasing offence for alcohol since November 2005, it is a difficult offence to prove, and the Home Office accepts that it is not being enforced as rigorously as we would like. I would also hesitate to place a new requirement on local authorities that would require them to observe shops and customers without significant benefits being achieved. Better enforcement of existing legislation is likely to be more effective than adding another offence that is difficult to enforce.
I would also like to make a technical point about the wording of new clause 4, which appears to have been lifted directly from the Licensing Act 2003, and speaks of members of clubs and tobacco consumption "on relevant premises". We know that smoking inside premises open to the public, including members' clubs, is no longer permitted under smoke-free legislation, so the wording will not work for the purpose for which it is intended.
Purchasing tobacco with intent to supply young people is only one small part of a wider, more complex problem. Children are given cigarettes that have not been specifically purchased for them, they pass them on to one another at school, and they get them from vending machines. Our new tobacco control strategy will set out our plans to tackle this complex problem. I can assure hon. Members that if it becomes clear that legislation would prove to be beneficial, I would indeed seek to make the case.
Sandra Gidley: Is the Minister saying that the Government's legislation on alcohol proxy sales is ineffective? Perhaps she could tell us how many prosecutions there have been if she is indeed saying that the policy has been such a failure that she cannot introduce similar mechanisms for tobacco?
Gillian Merron: As I have said, the Home Office has acknowledged that the legislation has not been as easy to enforce as it would like.
Mike Penning: The principle is exactly the same, and an identical piece of legislation has been proposed this evening. The 2003 Act is working, particularly in Cambridge, to which I alluded earlier. Where there is the will-people actually want to do it-it can be done. Running away from the fact that this is going on is not the answer.
Gillian Merron: We are not running away-we are saying that we are going to do better. I want to assure hon. Members that I very much understand the problem at hand. I urge them not to press their new clauses, and I look forward to the new tobacco control strategy, which will be far more comprehensive.
The provisions in the Bill seek to restrict or ban tobacco vending machines. The question before the House is how far it wants to go and how fast. These are finely balanced considerations which reflect the strength of feeling on this issue. To clarify, amendments 2 and 9 would compel the national authorities of England, Wales and Northern Ireland to make regulations on vending machines under clauses 22 and 23. It is not possible to accept amendments 2 and 9, which would change the wording from "may" to "shall", as the word "shall" would place a legal obligation on the appropriate national authority to regulate. The adoption of regulations would be subject to parliamentary approval. If Parliament or the relevant Assembly refused to approve any regulations that were laid, the appropriate national authority would be faced with a continuing obligation to try and make regulations, knowing that Parliament is unlikely to approve them. That would create legal uncertainty and the prospect of continuing legal challenge for not having made regulations.
Amendments 4 and 10, too, would create legal uncertainty, as the circumstances in which the powers could be used in those amendments are unclear. Amendments 17 and 18 seek to restrict the location of
vending machines to areas used by over-18s. In practice, matters are not so straightforward, as places that are for over-18s in the evening may be open to young people during the day. The remaining amendments tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney) and by the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) would seek an outright ban on vending machines in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. The Government remain seriously concerned about young people accessing tobacco from vending machines. Currently they are the usual source of cigarettes for 10 per cent. of 11 to 15-year-olds who say they smoke.
We have heard a range of arguments about how far we should go to control access to vending machines. We know one thing for sure: the evidence for action is clear. The Government believe that we can place requirements on vending machines that will be effective, proportionate and deliverable in preventing under-age sales and balance the views of all concerned. However, I ask right hon. and hon. Members not to press amendments 2, 4, 9, 10, 17 and 18. On the remaining amendments, I note that my right hon. Friend may wish to test the will of the House.
New clause 6, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson), would compel the Secretary of State to require all tobacco companies to release information about their marketing and research activities. I appreciate the sentiment behind the amendment, but before the Government could implement such a measure, we would need to consider carefully the burdens placed on business and Government alike, confidentiality, proportionality and, most importantly, its effectiveness. On balance, we cannot accept the amendment, so I ask my right hon. Friend not to press new clause 6.
New clause 7 would compel the Secretary of State to consult on the introduction of plain packaging requirements or restrictions on the branding on packaging. I have sympathy with the aims of the amendment. We have already stated that the Government will continue to keep tobacco packaging under close review. There is emerging evidence that branding and design of tobacco packaging may increase brand awareness among young people. The new strategy on tobacco control will consider a range of options for protecting children and people who smoke from misleading or promotional messages and packaging, and we will ensure that the evidence, which is still wanting, on plain packaging is further developed. On that basis, I ask the hon. Member for Romsey (Sandra Gidley) not to press new clause 7.
The Government remain committed to cutting preventable death and disease from smoking. I sincerely hope that the votes tonight will back us up in our efforts.
Mike Penning: We could have done with a lot longer this evening to debate these amendments and new clauses, but the crucial thing is that the will of the House is tested.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr. Stephen O'Brien: I beg to move amendment 19, page 2, line 3, at end insert
'and the core principles of the NHS.(1A) The core principles of the NHS are that-
(a) the NHS provides a comprehensive service, available to all;
(b) access to NHS services is based on clinical need, not an individual's ability to pay;
(c) the NHS aspires to the highest standards of excellence and professionalism;
(d) NHS services must reflect the needs and preferences of patients, their families and their carers;
(e) the NHS works across organisational boundaries and in partnership with other organisations in the interests of patients, local communities and the wider population;
(f) the NHS is committed to providing best value for taxpayers' money and the most effective, fair and sustainable use of finite resources; and
(g) the NHS is accountable to the public, communities and patients it serves.'.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 15, page 3, line 6, clause 3, leave out subsection (2) and insert-
'(2) The Secretary of State must undertake a short review of the NHS Constitution within the first two years of operation and, thereafter, at least once in any period of 10 years the Secretary of State must carry out a full review (a "10 year review").'.
Amendment 20, page 4, line 9, clause 4, at end insert-
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