| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
I can best explain the significance of this by saying that over the years the freemen have supplemented the income that they get from the grazing of cattle by allowing areas of town moor to be taken in for certain specific purposes. For instance, Newcastle United football club is one of the town moor intakes. The club is almost unique among city football clubs these days in being in the centre of the city. It exists because the freemen of the day agreed that the football club could use that land. If successive owners of the football club had been careful enough about due diligence, they would have discovered that it does not own the freehold of the land on which it stands. It is allowed to exercise its functions because the freemen of the city have agreed that it may do so. A small fee is paid to the freemen of the city each year by the football club to recognise the fact that the freemen choose not to exercise their right to graze their cattle on the football ground. Over recent years, that point has been the subject of many ironic references by my constituents. The fee tops up the income of the freemen and enables them to exercise their charitable functions. The same applies in other areas where the stewardship of the freemen survives, including York, Beverley and Chester.
In Newcastle, because of the large area of land in the city centre and the intakes, the system is of great significance to the people of the area. But the only people who can become freemen are the sons of the freemen, who have a right of hereditary succession. I am no great defender of the right of hereditary succession, but it is anomalous that only sons, and not daughters, may exercise the right to become freemen. That anomaly is gradually undermining the freemen system, because it depends on the male line, and if that dies out there is no replacement and it becomes an ever more limited group. New clause 4 would confer a right on daughters to become freemen, alongside sons.
I accept the point made by the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) that this is an issue of equality, and this is the right time to put it right. I have for some years, in various ways, attempted to do that, with the support of the stewards of the freemen of Newcastle. I have been given assurances that the Government would give this issue a fair wind or would deal with it in various pieces of legislation. Sadly, that has not been possible. With the help of Lord Graham of Edmonton, I have attempted to introduce legislation to correct this anomaly, but without success. I hope that today, at a time when the House is taking equality issues seriously, we can put right this anomaly and allow daughters of freemen, as well as sons, to exercise this important aspect of our constitutional heritage reflected by freemen in those areas where they continue to exist. The city of Newcastle would then know that the future of the town moor was safe in the hands of a significant body of people who would protect it and its heritage in the interests and for the benefit of the citizens of the city as a whole.
Mr. David Curry (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, Central (Jim Cousins) should be thankful for small mercies: at least the freemen of the city of Newcastle are not dependent on the Rural Payments Agency to support the cattle grazing on the common. If he had ever dealt with the paperwork necessary to sort out such payments, he would settle for what he has. I note that his football team is top of the Championship, so we all live in hope.
I wish to reflect on the remarks on referendums made by the hon. Member for Manchester, Blackley (Graham Stringer) and to agree with what he said. This Bill is like a gigantic ice cream cone: there are a few tasty things at the top, a thin framework and nothing in the middle. Instead of all this nonsense about petitions-90 per cent. of this Bill could be disposed of without any loss-we should put in something of substance and actually give local people a voice in some of these decisions. The hon. Gentleman listed the areas in which referendums had been held-on congestion charging, devolution, an assembly in the north-east and elected mayors. There are other examples of what might be called mini-referendums. For example, the only ever vote on the future of grammar schools was held in Ripon, although the previous Prime Minister rigged the electorate to ensure that the vote was "No". It could be said that housing transfers are still subject to vote by the tenants, so in a sense that is a referendum. Occasionally, councils have also consulted on options for the level of council tax, so the referendum idea has a good pedigree.
I am passionately hostile to referendums at the national level. Such referendums are the nearest thing to a political landfill tip-everybody dumps into it all the rubbish they cannot sort out in any other manner. However, local referendums are much more specific. People cram into school halls if the council proposes closing a school or is considering a house building proposal. If people are really concerned, they will seek to have a say, but at the moment the means that they have for expressing their opinion are too limited. There is therefore a good case for saying that, in specific circumstances when the question can be closely defined, people should be genuinely empowered to decide-in contrast to the froth of phoney empowerment in the Bill.
The hon. Gentleman said that he would not press the issue to a vote, and I respect that, but I hope that this and future Administrations will revisit it so that we can clarify what we mean by "decentralisation" and "localism". Very few people have any idea what is meant by those concepts. The best instrument of empowerment is to give people a vote on specific issues that affect their lives, and we should make that option much more available.
Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): I am pleased to catch your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in this general debate on several new clauses and amendments. I tabled new clause 8, but anyone reading it would be at a loss to understand what it means. It is an attempt to right the wrong perpetrated when in 2000 the House removed an important discretion from all local authorities, and I shall explain further.
It was the tradition of English local government, and of other parts of the UK, that councils deliberated business and reached conclusions through a series of committees. Sometimes those committees fed all their recommendations up to a full plenary council; other committees had delegated powers. The important point was that there was flexibility and discretion in the exercise of that decision-making process.
7.30 pm
However, under the Local Government Act 2000-section 31, I think-we said, "You can no longer do this. You can opt for a directly elected mayor and this
new-fangled cabinet system, but you cannot reach your decisions by a series of committees, unless you are a local authority below a population of about 85,000." There is neither logic nor fairness in Parliament telling councils that they cannot make their decisions in a particular way. That way had endured for 100, and perhaps even 200, years-certainly since the great local government legislation of 1888 and 1889-and still endures in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, where councils can so choose how they reach their decisions. If the House is mindful to support my new clause, it will not be saying to councils, "You will do your deliberations in this way," but, "You may"-I repeat "may"-"decide to do your business in this way."
Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I would like to say how much I agree with the hon. Gentleman. He is making a case that many of us made before the 2000 Act, when we said that local government should have the devolved power to decide how it wishes to make up its mind. That is all that we are asking, and I fully agree with him.
Andrew Mackinlay: Actually, I feel a little ashamed for not appreciating this matter at the time of the 2000 Act. I regret not having made an issue of it in the House at the time; no doubt I was distracted by other things. However, that Act has diminished local authorities' decision-making options and freedoms to decide how they reach their conclusions.
I emphasise to the House that, if it agrees to my new clause, it would simply restore those options to local authorities. However, I cannot disguise my bias in favour of the committee system, which worked well in so many ways. Even in councils with pretty strong and rigorous party political operations, that system allowed a degree of involvement and-dare I say it-power sharing with those not of the persuasion of the majority party. I look to my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Blackley (Graham Stringer), who, for many years, was a member of Manchester city council. It was one of the greatest local authorities. Under a previous distinguished leader-I forget his name; it was Bob-
Andrew Mackinlay: Bob Thomas! He was the prime minister of Manchester. He was the big man of Manchester, and people deferred to him. The chairpersons of the committees of Manchester city council had a quasi-ministerial-cabinet, as we now call it-role. Nevertheless, there was some decision sharing. Some councils were without a particularly strong party political tradition, with residents, independents and a smattering of people representing political parties serving on them. A committee system certainly worked in those instances.
I draw upon my experience as a young man, as a local government officer working for Surrey county council, where I observed, and served, the committee system as a committee clerk. There were a lot of very good people. We laughed at them at the time. They were all Colonel this, Wing Commander that and Squadron Leader this-because this was in the 1960s. We thought that they were Colonel Blimps, but actually, looking back, they were not bad people to have in local government. They had run regiments and believed in getting the biggest bang for their buck. They were also quite accommodating. Although they were clearly of a
conservative tradition, they readily accommodated the few Labour, Liberal and independent members in the decision-making process. There was a degree of contentment.
I have further relevant experience from my time as a minority council member in the Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames. I look back, even now, and remember occasions when I was able to persuade, in committee, the Conservative majority about the prudence of a particular course, decision or project. I would not have achieved those successes had there been this hard-and-fast, miniature mirroring of proceedings in Westminster. I have concluded that Westminster proceedings are very sterile and synthetic. Day after day, Members stick their tongues out-basically-at those on the other side of the House. There is no mature decision making. The committee system in local government gave and promoted a degree of collegiality, and gave people with a particularly good case the opportunity to advance it and persuade others, despite party politics. Frankly, that brought with it better decision making. I would like that option to be restored to local government.
The cabinet system, which councils are now basically obliged to follow, unless they go through the tortuous process of a referendum on a directly elected mayor, is unhealthy. It has all the chemistry for arbitrary decision making and government. It also means-much more so even than in this House, where it is bad enough-that if someone is not a member of the so-called cabinet, they are an also-ran; they are not on the inside. It has always surprised me that we pay councillors lots of money to attend meetings at which fewer decisions are taken. There is less of a feeling of ownership and commitment, and of that natural progression by which people can gain experience, become municipal fathers and mothers and emulate Bob Thomas and others such as Jeremy Beecham, who I think had a distinguished period in Newcastle. No doubt those on the Conservative and Liberal Benches can think of their own distinguished municipal leaders.
I ask hon. Members to pause and reflect that this is an opportunity to remedy a wrong that we enacted in 2000. I echo the sentiments of a number of hon. Members on both sides of the House who feel that this is a lost legislative opportunity. Instead of setting local government free and encouraging it to exercise and enjoy general competence powers, in so many cases the Bill is prescriptive and restrictive-and a big mistake. It has created more buzz words and meaningless titles, and a plethora of additional bodies, all of which have the hallmarks and fingerprints of the previous Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Hazel Blears), who incidentally is notable by her absence this evening. She should have been here, because she is the architect of this legislation.
I suspect that my right hon. Friend the Minister, sitting on the Treasury Bench, would never have concocted this vast telephone book of odd pieces of legislation, much of which, as has been said, need not be on the statute book; it clutters it in a very unhealthy way. My little new clause, at least to some degree, would push back some of the restrictions and rules with which we have tied the arms of local government and those, across the political spectrum, who are great practitioners, enthusiasts and lovers of local government and who believe that it is extremely important. I invite anyone
who wishes to help me as a Teller, or to join me in the Division Lobby, to do so. I would very much welcome that, because I think that we ought to test this matter in the House.
Mr. Redwood: I rise to support the excellent contribution by the hon. Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), in the spirit of cross-party co-operation in which he spoke to the new clause.
I love the image of England in the 1960s, when I grew up, when independent and civically minded people were in local government and there were fewer representatives of political parties. I am sure that there were, indeed, people who could harness the good will of people of all parties and of none in solving problems. Local government now is much more politicised, although I do not think that we are about to reverse that.
All the main political parties want to test their strength in local government elections. They also wish to propose, in an understandable way, a national and local programme combined. Some voters agree with that. Some say that they do not, although I suspect from how they vote that in practice they think that there is something to be said for a party platform. However, I would argue that the hon. Gentleman's proposal works equally well in the more modern world, where party political groups are likely to predominate in councils, because the most important thing is the role of the average councillor.
The enforced cabinet system in local government has given back-bench councillors a reduced role and made a lot of them rather unhappy. Not only do they not have a proper role in the decision making of the authority to which they were elected with strength equal to that of to those who do, but they do not even have the same ability to hold the administration-the executive-to account for the people whom they represent in their wards and divisions, because we all know that the officers do not take them as seriously if they do not have executive power and are not members of the cabinet. I have known councillors who cannot even get information out of their council, but surely a councillor should have a privileged position and expect to see the business of the council, if necessary on terms of privacy, if it relates to individuals or sensitive matters.
We need to devolve power properly to local government. I would hope, as the hon. Gentleman does, that if we could do that, more local authorities would choose a committee structure and return to the idea that the important decisions should be thrashed out in common in the political groups, so when the political groups presented their views to the council, not only would the group leaders know that they spoke for their group and know what the balance of opinion and forces was within it, but each back bencher would feel that they mattered, because they would have an equal vote in the group. If they are powerful speakers, if they feel passionately about something, if they have a good case or if they are on the popular side, they will have the joy of knowing that they will help to form the group proposal. All that would become possible again if the hon. Gentleman's new clause 8 were passed.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con):
My right hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Perhaps his experience of the committee system is reinforced by mine when I was a committee chairman in local
government. In effect, the committee chairman and the leader formed a cabinet and gave officers a steer. However, once the policy was agreed, my job as a committee chairman was to take the members of my committee with me. At the very least, that meant taking the back-bench members of my side and sometimes, if I wanted an easier ride, taking members of the opposition as well. Is that not a much healthier situation?
Mr. Redwood: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that comment, and I hope that that means that those on the Opposition Front Bench will support new clause 8, should there be an opportunity to vote on it.
When I was a county councillor in Oxfordshire in my younger political days, I, too, was privileged to be a committee chairman. I therefore had some executive authority. However, I always felt that that authority came from and was vested in the majority group. I was always pleased to take what I wanted to do to the group. I thought that I was doing the right thing, but it was a lot stronger if I could take it to those in the group and persuade them, because then I knew that they would vote for it willingly, unlike under the current system, where things are worked out in private, often on the advice of the officers and without a lot of political sense involved. Then things have to be driven through against the unwillingness and the voting patterns of the majority councillors, with all sorts of arm twisting of the kind that people sometimes experience even in this place, in a way that gets in the way of good government and common sense.
People elect councillors because they think that they have talents and skills, so surely all those talents and skills should be deployed. Not all councillors can have executive posts, so let them be involved in the big decisions. Indeed, perhaps we could learn a bit from that in this place. Of course we need a Cabinet-we all understand the importance of Cabinet government-but successful Cabinet Ministers in this place are Ministers who consult, consider and listen to colleagues before they go snap on a policy. Successful Cabinet Ministers not only understand their policy and know how to pilot it through this place, but are people who have tested it out in advance and do not think that everything has to be secret. Then they know that they have a constituency for change. I hope that we can vote on new clause 8 and free local government to have that option.
7.45 pm
Mr. Mike Hancock (Portsmouth, South) (LD): I apologise for not being here earlier, but I was tied up with several things at the same time, as we are so often in the House. I came specifically to support the hon. Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), although I was delighted to listen to the speech by the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood).
I speak as an executive member on a large local authority and somebody who has been in local government for 38 years. I have never seen local government as weakened as it is now, simply because of the breakdown of the committee system. There is no longer any genuine ownership of the issues that are important to people. The old committee structure allowed a group of members-perhaps as few as eight or nine on small committees, although when I was leader of Hampshire county council we had committees with 40-odd
members-at least to have some ownership of the issues, because we could have more than one debate on important issues.
When I led Hampshire, it was interesting that there were very few opposition votes when we finally took things to the plenary of the council, because the committee structure had drawn out the arguments and brought people together. We had many votes for and against in the committee stage, but things would be amended properly; it was a bit like how we like to think that we work in Committee here.
The setting up of the executive is a bizarre concept in itself. Indeed, I can describe my last executive meeting. I sat there alone, the only member with a vote. First, I had to declare whether I had any interest. I welcomed the members of the public who had come along, said hello to the officers and then invited the two opposition spokesmen-Conservative and Labour-to sit at the table with me. I tried to bring them in, but at the end of the day, they could not have what they really wanted, which was to be able to move something or to vote on the issue. The situation is depressing. In the end, some of my meetings have lasted no more than five or 10 minutes. Why would they last any longer? Who do I talk to? Myself? Should I go through something with the officers that I have already gone through with them?
I then went to my group meeting and told my colleagues what we did at the executive meeting. My colleagues raised some very interesting points, which is relevant to the point made by the right hon. Member for Wokingham about his experience of trying to talk the thing through beforehand. The current system does not really allow that to happen, because the executive member is smothered by information. The executive member spends all their time trying to absorb the information given to them, but in the committee structure the information was shared. The committee chair, the vice-chair and the opposition spokesmen all felt that they would play a part and be able to move something.
What we have now is the worst of all possible worlds. To deny local government the option to choose what is best for itself was the biggest mistake of all. If there were a vote today in the local authority that I represent in the city of Portsmouth, all 42 members would, without a shadow of doubt, vote unanimously for a return to the committee structure. Why? Because that would give a genuine sense of belonging. It would give the back benchers a chance to play a part, rather than being bit players in something in which many of them get involved only half a dozen times a year.
The committee structure, with committees meeting monthly and in some instances more regularly, meant that back benchers could play a significant role. They built reputations because of their role on a committee. Somebody who was passionately interested in housing became one of the leading housing experts in the city of Portsmouth. They built a truly great reputation in local government, not through their ability to be the chairman of the housing authority, but through their ability to be an opposition member who became an expert and was listened to by those on all sides.
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |