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Points of Order
12.25 pm
Dr. Liam Fox (Woodspring) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. About an hour ago, the Government published the Gray report, the very important report into acquisition which has been suppressed throughout the summer recess. Only this week we were told in an answer that the report is expected to be published in the autumn. Now, an hour-or even less-before a debate on defence, Members are asked to read and digest 296 pages of non-stop damning criticism of Government procedure. This is an insult to the House; it is a despicable and cowardly act and indicative of a Government who care more about their own reputation than informing the House. As the Secretary of State is present, may I ask, Mr. Speaker, that we get a separate statement on this tomorrow? If the Government do not provide a separate statement, the Opposition will certainly ask for an urgent question.
Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising his point of order. The laying of documents, including the timing of when they are laid, is a matter for Government. However, I have listened very carefully to what the hon. Gentleman has said and in the light of the fact that, as I understand it, the report was completed some time ago, I say to members of the Treasury Bench that, frankly, it can be regarded as a rank discourtesy to the House that it has been published only an hour or so before the next debate. As the Secretary of State for Defence is present, I invite him to respond to the point of order.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I know what is said, but the report was not completed some time ago. That is why it was not published before the recess, and I think the House would have been damning of me had I published it during the recess. I have published it at the earliest opportunity in the House. I sincerely regret that we were not able to get it to Opposition Members earlier this morning, but it is now available for everyone to examine, and we will be able to do that in the months ahead in the run-up to the Government's Green Paper, where we will have to address acquisition reform and many of the issues raised by Bernard Gray.
Mr. Speaker: The Secretary of State has heard the point of order and my response to it, and I have listened with interest and respect to his response. I must say to him that publication a matter of an hour before the debate is regarded by Members as a discourtesy, and I confess that I myself also regard it as a discourtesy, and I hope that this will not happen again.
Mr. James Arbuthnot (North-East Hampshire) (Con): Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am surprised at what the Secretary of State has just said. I read this report in July. I have just read it again as fast as I could, and it has changed by a few words but its entire structure and basis are exactly the same, so for the Secretary of State to say that it was not complete before the summer recess surprises me.
Mr. Speaker:
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his attempted point of order, but I am not quite sure that it constitutes a point of order. It is perhaps-I am
sure he regards it as this-a helpful elaboration of the issues, but I hope he will understand that I do not want to be drawn further. I have said what I have to say, and I think that what I have said is very clear.
Defence Policy
12.28 pm
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of defence policy.
Defence policy is about delivering security for the people of this country, including security against terrorism, and being a force for good by strengthening international peace and stability. The Ministry of Defence and the nation's armed forces do this in two ways: first, by ensuring that, within planned resources, we have the military capability needed to meet the Government's policy aims; and, secondly, by delivering military effect on operations. Therefore, I would like to address my remarks today, first, to the delivery of our operation in Afghanistan and, secondly, to how we are preparing our armed forces for the future, including procurement and acquisition reform.
I know that all in this House and across the country hold our armed forces in the highest regard and have deep respect for their commitment and professionalism. Yesterday, we paid tribute to those who died over the summer. Some 221 members of the armed forces have lost their lives in Afghanistan since operations began in 2001 and many more have been injured, some with life-changing injuries. For their families, friends and comrades that is a heavy price to bear. This year alone, the NATO-led coalition has suffered 409 fatalities, with the United States bearing the brunt. In particular, I should like to pay tribute to those who fight alongside the UK forces in Helmand and have done so over this difficult summer in Operation Panther's Claw-they include the forces of Denmark and Estonia. We are in this together: 42 nations are represented in the international security assistance force, working side by side with the Afghans, under a United Nations mandate and at the invitation of the Afghan Government. The Afghans themselves are paying an extremely high price; many hundreds of members of the Afghan national security forces have lost their lives this year.
Last week, in St. Paul's cathedral, we paid tribute to the achievements of British troops in Iraq, where 179 of our people lost their lives. I am pleased to report to the House that, on Tuesday, the Iraqi Council of Representatives gave our bilateral agreement on naval training and maritime support its third and final reading. I shall keep the House informed of progress as we conclude that agreement, through which we will provide ongoing training to the Iraqi navy at Umm Qasr, in southern Iraq. Alongside our role in leading the training of Iraqi officers in the Baghdad area, that will be an important component of a broad-based bilateral relationship between the United Kingdom and Iraq.
With the end of combat operations in Iraq, our effort in Afghanistan is the main one. Our presence there is supported by all parties in the House. I have looked closely at the statements and the speeches of Opposition Front Benchers and have found that there is a great deal of consensus in what we say. We agree that our forces are in Afghanistan primarily for reasons of national security. We agree that we operate in Afghanistan to prevent the Taliban from returning to power and, again, giving al-Qaeda free rein. We agree that our approach must be regional and that our strategy must
focus on Pakistan as well, so that we tackle the violent extremism in the area as a whole. Pakistan's armed forces have dealt the Pakistani Taliban a severe blow in the Swat valley, and are looking to take on the insurgents and their leadership in South Waziristan. As I heard when I visited the Pakistan army headquarters in Islamabad just over a week ago, Pakistan has paid a heavy price for taking on the violent extremists. We should recognise the efforts that Pakistan's forces are making and the sacrifice that is being made.
In this House, we agree that, unlike Pakistan, Afghanistan does not yet have the capacity to resist the Taliban-led insurgency on its own. We agree that building Afghanistan's capacity to do that will mean that, over time, we will be able to reduce our military commitment, which is why we agree to focus on the training and the partnering of the Afghan security forces. We agree that the security space provided by NATO operations must be used to build and develop Afghan governance in order to give the Afghan people a stake in their own future and to help them to turn their backs on the Taliban-led insurgency. We agree that military and development operations must be backed up by a political strategy that bears down on the insurgency and begins the process of reconciliation. We agree that the consequences of failure in Afghanistan would be disastrous: it would be seen as a victory for the violent extremists, increasing the threat of terrorism back here at home; it would destabilise a particularly sensitive region, including nuclear-armed Pakistan; it would seriously undermine NATO, which has been the bedrock of our defence for the past 60 years; and it would damage the reputation of Britain's armed forces and call into question the ability of the UK Government to project power in the future.
Let us be clear that sustained pressure on al-Qaeda in Pakistan, combined with military action in Afghanistan, is having a suppressive effect on al-Qaeda. A peaceful and stable Afghanistan would be a strategic failure for al-Qaeda. Three quarters of the most serious terror plots against the UK have their roots in the border and mountain areas between Afghanistan and Pakistan, so the success of the ISAF mission in Afghanistan is therefore of critical importance to the security of British citizens and to UK interests.
Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con): I am sure that the Secretary of State would agree that until we reach the point that he has just described, we need to ensure that we have enough troops in theatre to carry out the task that is asked of them. At the height of the troubles, we had more than 20,000 troops in Northern Ireland. As he is well aware, Helmand province is nearly twice the size of Northern Ireland and Wales put together. The announcement of an extra 500 troops smacks of too little, too late, given the scale of the task. When will he deploy a substantial number of troops-more troops-to Helmand province, as requested by the military? If he does not do that, overstretch will continue to cost lives unnecessarily.
Mr. Ainsworth: I intend to discuss troop numbers later in my speech-nobody is in any doubt that I would have to address the issue at some time-and I will give way to the hon. Gentleman again on that point should he care to intervene then.
Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab):
We hear lots about terrorist threats and the Pakistan-Afghanistan
border, but can the Secretary of State tell us precisely how many terrorist attacks against our country have been planned by the Taliban in Afghanistan?
Mr. Ainsworth: I know that my hon. Friend does not support our involvement in Afghanistan and thinks that it is not linked to our national security, but he knows that all the time we are thwarting threats to our security back here at home; most recently, people were prosecuted for the attempted airline bombs. Many of the threats are disrupted before they reach fruition, thank heavens, but it is well known and accepted-and I state this as a fact-that three quarters of the threats to this country originate in that region.
Mr. Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con): The Secretary of State said that he has the support of the Conservatives, but I think that that extends only to the support given to the armed forces. Time and again, we have suggested that the Government are adopting the wrong strategy in Afghanistan. That has now been proved by Admiral Mullen saying that we need to change-General McChrystal said the same in his report. What does the Secretary of State say about that now? How will things change in Afghanistan, given that in his report General McChrystal is quoted as saying:
"ISAF is a conventional force that is poorly configured for COIN".
What will happen in respect of British troops so that we change and adopt a new strategy?
Mr. Ainsworth: The reason I read out that list of agreements was to prove that what the hon. Gentleman says is not true. That list was an analysis of statements made by his own Front-Bench team and by the Front Benchers of other parties over time. It proves that there is widespread agreement on our strategy for Afghanistan. Inevitably, people will have a political view and some Back Benchers will disagree with their own Front-Bench team and with the Government Treasury Bench team on particular aspects. People should hold the Government to account, but all I ask is that when dealing with a situation this serious, where 9,000 people are deployed in a very dangerous environment, we should not pretend that we disagree about things that we do not disagree about.
Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): Can the Secretary of State tell us what proportion of the Pakistani army is facing India, as opposed to facing Afghanistan? When he was recently in Pakistan, what pressure did he bring to bear on the Pakistani Government to redeploy more of their assets to deal with the problem confronting us, particularly in the tribal areas?
Mr. Ainsworth:
I did not go to Pakistan to lecture them on what they ought and ought not to be doing, and I do not think that that would be at all productive. If I thought that that was an appropriate way in which to deal with a proud and sovereign nation, I would do precisely that. We should recognise and applaud, as I do, what Pakistan has done in the past year or so. It has shifted resources and although, yes, Pakistan sees the Indian border as a threat and has forces based on that border that it is not prepared to move, it has shifted both its position and its forces. Its forces have confronted the insurgency in the Swat valley very effectively and are
proposing, if they have not started already, to confront it in Waziristan. I received from Pakistani politicians and military leaders their clear recognition that the insurgency was a threat to them as well as to Afghanistan and to our forces based in Afghanistan. We need to work with them rather than thinking that we can lecture them in any way. I do not think that that would be appropriate or constructive.
Paul Flynn: I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State, who is being extremely generous in giving way. In the light of his answer, in which he referred to "that region", will he confirm that three quarters of the terrorist threats to this country originated in Pakistan whereas the other quarter originated here in Britain, and that none of the terrorist threats originated in Afghanistan or from the Taliban?
Mr. Ainsworth: I accept that the majority of the threats have come from the other side of the border, but I ask my hon. Friend to accept what is self-evident to me. If our troops were not in Afghanistan, that would probably not be the case. A collapsed Afghanistan-that is almost definitely what would happen without our presence-would be a threat to Pakistan and a threat to us back in the United Kingdom. That is why we are there and the very fact that the majority of the threats do not come from Afghanistan is a tribute to the job that our people are doing in southern Afghanistan. I would have thought that that was self-evident.
I shall move on, if I may. We have had a hard summer. The commander of ISAF, General McChrystal, has said that the situation in Afghanistan is serious, and I agree, but General McChrystal has also said that there has been progress. That is evident in southern Afghanistan, where most of our forces are based. The inflow of thousands of additional US troops has enabled the Afghan Government to re-establish their authority in a number of towns in southern Helmand and has enabled ISAF's Regional Command South to take measures to reduce the Taliban threat to Kandahar. I want to take this opportunity to thank Major General de Kruif of the Netherlands for his leadership of RC South over the past year. I am sure that the House will join me in wishing his successor, Major General Nick Carter, well on his tour of duty, which is just starting.
Let me turn to UK forces specifically. The 19 Light Brigade has cleared insurgents from large areas of central Helmand and has spent a lot of time training and mentoring the Afghan security forces. Afghans were able to plan and provide the inner cordon of security around polling stations during a tense election period. The Afghan Government and security forces now have an increasingly permanent presence where it matters in Helmand-in the main population centres. Our recent operations have allowed civilian teams to start building schools, roads and clinics. What matters most is the support of the local population in the area secured this summer. This is the greatest evidence of success in a counter-insurgency operation. It is the Afghans who will ultimately consolidate success and we are committed to helping them to do so. It is a tough job, and progress can seem slow, but we have taken some essential steps in the right direction this summer and 11 Light Brigade will now take the job forward.
I think that the whole House should recognise the exemplary leadership that has been shown by Brigadier Tim Radford-I met him twice in theatre and I have met him twice since-during a most difficult deployment in Helmand over these past six months. He has done a fantastic job at showing leadership in those circumstances and we should recognise that and pay tribute to the marvellous job that he has done.
Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): The Secretary of State is quite right about the superb job that Brigadier Radford has done. I am glad to be able to tell the Secretary of State that Brigadier Radford has accepted the invitation of the all-party group on the Army to come to a reception on the Terrace of the House of Commons on 30 November. I hope that hon. Members who are present in the Chamber will join me then to thank him for the work that has been done.
Mr. Ainsworth: I thank the hon. Gentleman for arranging these opportunities for us to mix and to show our gratitude to the people who are serving our country in this way. I will certainly try to be there, unless there is something in my programme that is absolutely immovable.
Mr. Ellwood: The strategy that has been conducted up to now has been simplified as "clear, hold and build". The clearing and the holding took place in the Babaji area under Operation Panther's Claw. In our last debate, I asked the Secretary of State what will now happen to that area as regards reconstruction and stabilisation. He told me that they would go ahead but gave no details. In answer to a parliamentary question, I was told that the Department for International Development is paying for one road to be built through the area, which will be completed in 2013. Does he really feel that that is the sort of stabilisation, reconstruction and development that needs to take place? It does not match the efforts that our armed forces are putting in to clear the ground in the first place.
Mr. Ainsworth: The hon. Gentleman appears to want to deride everything that our people do in every circumstance, so I am not surprised by what he says. The "one road" that he mentions is a road between Lashkar Gar, the political capital of Helmand, and Gereshk, the economic capital, if you like, of Helmand. That is probably the most important road in the region, and the hon. Gentleman dismisses it as "one road".
As I have just said, there is now an opportunity-this work has already commenced-for schools and hospitals to be built as well as roads and for contacts to be made that offer opportunities for engagement between the Afghan Government and that huge centre of population as a result of the hard work and considerable sacrifice of our troops in Babaji over a period of time. The development piece is in there, right behind the front line, and if the hon. Gentleman asks people in theatre who have been part of this operation, they will tell him that. I hope that he does that, as that might curtail his carping to some degree.
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