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On marine conservation zones, we were pleased that we were able to achieve a balance between socio-economic and environmental considerations with which all interested parties were broadly happy. I appreciate that there is still some concern about exactly how competing interests will be balanced, but the bottom line should be that implementation of these conservation measures must
be led by science. I am disappointed that, as a consequence of lack of time at the end of the debate, there was not more opportunity yesterday to discuss all the concerns about MCZs, particularly the amendment proposed by the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Ms Clark).
The Minister advanced technical arguments why a power could not be given to the Secretary of State to designate a marine conservation zone for the protection of a whole ecosystem, but as Friends of the Earth said, that power could have been used to restrain damaging activities where a whole ecosystem could be put under threat. Given that the amendment created only a power, not a duty, I hope the Government noted the force of the argument.
Mr. Gummer: Is it not disappointing that on two occasions, once today and once yesterday, when the Government have done so much on the Bill, they failed to understand that giving a commitment such as protecting an ecosystem is crucial for people outside to believe that we understand how all this works? To deny that is to say something very old-fashioned-that we can pick bits out and defend those, without understanding that the ecosystem as a whole is what we ought to be concerned to preserve.
Nick Herbert: I agree with my right hon. Friend. It was a shame that there were, apparently, reasons, I believe they were largely technical, why the amendment could not be accepted. It created a power for the Secretary of State to have regard to the issues of a whole ecosystem. It is true that rather too much of the work of nature conservation is process-driven, so we have to remember that creating a marine conservation zone is not an end in itself. We should be focused on outcomes and should, therefore, be looking for tangible results from the designation of those protected areas.
Overall, I believe that we were able to achieve a balance between the competing interests, but the designation of the zones should be a flexible and ongoing process that addresses the wide range of challenges facing the marine environment. The zones should reflect the dynamic nature of our seas rather than existing as token sanctuaries, and they should have the means available to amend their boundaries or designations where needed.
It was rather disappointing that Ministers just overturned changes that were made to the Bill in Committee in relation to the MMO's role in sustainable development. As my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury said, the MMO should be a standard bearer for our seas and involved in actively furthering sustainable development, rather than simply contributing to it.
It is important to acknowledge that for the conservation measures within the Bill to be truly effective, they need to go hand in hand with fundamental reform of the common fisheries policy, which is key to achieving a sustainable future for our seas. Various elements of the Bill are reliant upon a decentralised and environmentally sensitive CFP. In its current form, the CFP has been as much of a disaster for our fishermen as for the environment. As right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House discussed yesterday, we must see fishermen as part of the solution to sustainable management of marine environment, and as the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) stressed, it is important for us to work in close co-operation with fishermen, and at no stage should they be excluded from consultations or decision making.
The Conservatives are realistic and we understand that some decisions will not please conservationists, fishermen or local communities, but we believe that if they have been engaged in the decision-making process from the start, the measures in the Bill are far more likely to be successful.
We must not forget that another marine Bill is being developed in Scotland. It may be trite to say that fish do not recognise lines on a map, but we must ensure that we work constructively with the Scottish Government and other devolved powers, so that the management of the whole of the UK's marine environment is joined up and coherent.
The focus that the Bill has received has shown that concern about our marine environment is not restricted to a few vested interests. Millions of people, including some from inland areas, have shown their concern for the health of the marine environment. Although the measures relating to that are clearly the most significant in the Bill, I do not want to neglect the coastal access element of it. We are generally supportive of the principle of increasing access to our coast and countryside, but we had concerns about the specific provisions for a coastal path. That aspect of the Bill has received a great deal of scrutiny both here and in the other place, and the measures before us today have been greatly improved in terms of safeguards and appeals. Our reservations over coastal margin, mapping, liability and future use of land have all been aired at length during the passage of the Bill, and although assurances have been given by the Minister, we will be keeping an eager eye on the development of the coastal route.
Much of the work now is in delivery-delivery of the MMO, MCZs and the coastal path. Natural England has been charged with a great deal of the responsibility for the implementation of the coastal route and MCZs. We would like to see much of the responsibility for the route devolved to voluntary access forums and local authorities. We believe that a top-down approach to coastal access is not the answer and that local groups are much better placed to designate and manage the shape of the route.
There needs to be full consultation at an early stage with all stakeholders to ensure that MCZs are robust and sustainable and that the principles of an ecologically coherent network can be set out quickly.
This is a long-awaited and important moment. We are very nearly at the end of the long process of ensuring the protection of our marine environment. The Bill is the product of a constructive legislative process that represents the kind of productive debate and discussion of which, too often, there is rather too little in politics today. We have a better Bill as a result, and I look forward, as I am sure many others do, to celebrating its inclusion on the statute book.
6.34 pm
Tom Levitt (High Peak) (Lab): I may not be the obvious Member of the House to speak about marine environments or coastal access, because we have neither coast nor marine environments in my constituency. However, High Peak is the philosophical home of the right to roam: we had the Kinder trespass in 1932 and the first open-access land designated under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, and we have more open-access land than any other constituency in England.
High Peak is the birthplace of the right to roam, but it is also the birthplace of one Sir Martin Doughty. Martin was my constituent, and he died of cancer earlier this year. I am sure that my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front Bench would acknowledge that without him, there would have been no Marine and Coastal Access Bill. As the chair of Natural England, and of English Nature before that, Martin was largely responsible for working with various environment Ministers, including my right hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Jim Knight), my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Jonathan Shaw), the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) and others, to bring the measure about.
Before Martin was involved in English Nature and Natural England, he was the chair of the Peak District national park and the leader of Derbyshire county council. He was born and bred in High Peak and lived there his whole life. He lived and breathed the countryside and the natural world and explored it as often as he could with a passion and humour that was truly infectious. In the 20 years that I knew him, he was one of the kindest, most gentle and most principled people that I ever met. Everyone who came across him respected him and very soon loved him.
Martin was also a great socialist, who put principles into practice in a pragmatic, thoughtful and just way. A couple of weeks ago, 200 of us gathered on Kinder Scout on what would have been his 60th birthday. There were friends, neighbours, political allies and even some rivals, people from interest groups, Government agencies, local authority leaders and two of my colleagues, my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Alun Michael) and my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Ms Smith), who are sitting either side of me tonight. We went not only to remember Martin, but to dedicate Kinder Scout in his memory-it was created the 223rd national nature reserve on that very day.
The ambition to create a national coastal path that is accessible to walkers, climbers and others where appropriate is sound and it is right, and it is Martin's achievement as much as that of any other individual, although he was never one to claim the limelight. I hope that my hon. Friends will consider calling all or part of it either the Doughty way or Martin's way or something in his memory.
On Kinder Scout a couple of weeks ago, we sang to Martin's memory. It will be of little surprise on the Government Benches that we sang "The Manchester Rambler". I had the great privilege of meeting the author of that song, Ewan McColl, once, many years ago, and my constituency is mentioned several times in it. Ewan McColl was the press officer for the mass trespass in 1932 and Martin Doughty's father was one of the trespassers.
Given that we are talking about the Marine and Coastal Access Bill, one verse stands out from the song-there is a prescient mention of the legislation that we are talking about. It goes:
"He"-
"called me a louse and said 'Think of the grouse'.
Well I thought, but I still couldn't see
Why old Kinder Scout and the moors round about
Couldn't take both the poor grouse and me.
He said 'All this land is my master's'
At that I stood shaking my head,
No man has the right to own mountains
Any more than the deep ocean bed."
With that, and in the memory of Sir Martin Doughty, the founding chairman of Natural England and the moving force behind the coastal path, I congratulate Ministers on this highly significant and important piece of legislation and look forward to its enactment.
6.38 pm
Andrew George: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for High Peak (Tom Levitt) and I am certain that his tributes to Sir Martin Doughty were well deserved.
This is a phenomenally important piece of legislation. In this brief contribution, I simply wish to convey this: I hope, after all the work in both Houses, that the Bill will prove in years to come to be fit for purpose, particularly regarding its original, central purpose, the future of the marine environment. It is a rich resource that deserves the protection that it will be given as a result of the legislation.
I am also grateful to the Secretary of State, and I concur with him and the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert). As a sponsor of the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) in 2001, I have likewise been following this debate for many years.
I pay tribute to the Ministers-the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, the hon. Member for Glasgow, North (Ann McKechin) and the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies)-for the manner in which they have managed and conducted the Bill through its various stages in the House. The Bill has a wet side and a dry side-port and starboard-meaning a part that deals with marine conservation and a part that deals with coastal access. Piloting such a large ship has been a very challenging task for both Ministers. It is also an issue that provokes enormous interest on both sides of the House, not only in those hon. Members with coastal constituencies, but in many who, while they have no doubt been lobbied, also have a deep interest because we are a maritime nation. It is not possible to talk about the sea and the coast without everyone in this country taking an interest.
This is a monumental and important Bill. It is not precisely as I would have designed it-I hope that that will not be a severe handicap to it-but I think that it will prove to be fit for purpose. I hope that two watchwords will be applied to the Bill. The first is balance, which runs like a common-or even a golden-thread through it. I proposed amendments to achieve balance in the designation of the marine conservation zones and in the operation of the conservation policies and byelaws, and I hope that in the implementation of the Bill and the operation of the MMO we will achieve the balance that we all wish to achieve.
The second watchword is consensus. Throughout the debate, there has been an assumption that conflict in the marine zone is inevitable-that fishermen are always in conflict with marine conservationists. Over the last
decade, the fishing sector has increasingly worked with marine conservationists and other scientists and found common ground-
Mr. Elliot Morley (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I strongly support what the hon. Gentleman says about balance. It is important not only for the fishing industry, but for the many stakeholders in the marine environment, such as the oil, gas and dredging industries. Does he agree that one of the themes that has emerged from the debate is that we should not be reactive in relation to conservation, but proactive? Inshore management presents a real opportunity to do that.
Andrew George: The right hon. Gentleman has tremendous experience in this area, and everyone who knows of his contribution to the debate on the Bill and the marine environment generally will appreciate that he talks with great knowledge of the subject. He is right in what he says about inshore management. I hope that the IFCAs will bring together the shared interest across all the sectors, including marine conservation, to pursue consensus to achieve the constructive outcomes that we all desire. I am confident that that will be the product of this Bill, because consensus is the way forward. Many fishermen are now recognising that they must work with others with an interest in the marine environment to achieve a sustainable fishing industry.
This is a welcome measure and I am sure that it will make a significant contribution to the marine environment and, in due course, to the sustainable development of our marine resource.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. We have to finish this debate at 7 pm and several hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. I hope that they will all make brief contributions so that everyone may have their turn.
6.44 pm
Linda Gilroy: The Bill has been one of the most satisfying measures that I have been associated with in 12 and a half years as an MP. I am fortunate to have been involved since the early stages, including the private Member's Bill that many hon. Members have mentioned. With 450 marine scientists and 1,500 environmental students in my constituency, a large cluster of marine science and technology organisations and now the first low-carbon economic zone designation in the country, which will put us at the forefront of renewable energy technology-especially wave energy-and climate change and marine technologies, it is no wonder that I have taken such an interest, and I will continue to do so.
The Bill has been amended and had clauses added, including those we have just debated, dealing with how to achieve the important balance that the hon. Member for St. Ives (Andrew George) mentioned between social, economic and environmental tensions, which is of course the very reason for the framework that the Bill sets up. It will achieve that balance, and the assurances that the Minister has given that the five shared principles adopted by the UK Administrations are embedded in the high-level objectives will be an important aspect of that as the policy statements are developed. As the Minister acknowledged, it is likely that a range of Select Committees, including the Environmental Audit Committee, the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the Energy and Climate Change Committee and the Transport
Committee-perhaps even the regional Select Committees-and all the industry and professional associations and the academics who have lobbied long and hard for the Bill, will keep it under the microscope.
I drew some reassurance from the assertion made in Committee-and repeated yesterday-that not to create a coherent ecosystem would open up the Government to judicial review if they do not follow the science. However, I have to confess to a slight disappointment at one response to an intervention earlier. I will continue to look with great interest at the suggestion by the Renewable Energy Association that a chief engineering adviser is necessary. The association thinks that the appointment of a chief scientific adviser to the MMO is helpful in respect of marine conservation, but will not address the needs of an engineering discipline such as marine and renewable energy, and that is why the MMO should also be required to appoint a chief engineering adviser. Time will tell on that point, as on others.
Everybody will want to help make this globally ground-breaking framework work. The Minister and the civil servants have received many plaudits, which they richly deserve. The challenge will now be for the MMO to draw on the rich expertise that has been displayed throughout the formulation of the draft Bill and its various stages in both Houses. Whether as a legislator, a scrutineer, a constituency MP or someone who has walked 200 miles of the 600 miles of the south-west coast, I intend to try to play a small part in taking the framework forward.
6.48 pm
Mr. John Randall (Uxbridge) (Con): I thank the Front Benchers and other hon. Members for their kind words. When my private Member's Bill failed in the other place, I was in fact mightily relieved. It seemed like a simple idea at the time, but I realised that I had unearthed an issue that no private Member would ever be able to get on the statute book. I am pleased that all parties made a commitment to the issue, and it fell to this particular team to take it on. We have had a variety of sympathetic Ministers and Opposition Front Benchers. I pay particular tribute to the current incumbents on the Treasury Bench, who have worked hard, as have my hon. Friends on the Front Bench.
I also wish to thank the organisations involved, although it was their members-our constituents-who pushed this issue. I can remember many colleagues telling me about the masses of letters and e-mails that they had received on this subject. They were delighted to find out that we were supporting this Bill, and everybody has played a part in its progress. All those interested in the marine environment have worked hard to get to this point, and that should be recognised outside this House. I still have a couple of questions that time does not allow me to ask, so I shall write to the Minister and I hope that in his usual manner he will answer them.
We should feel proud. This Parliament, from 2005 to 2010-if that is when it will be-will be remembered for many things, and probably not all very kind things to those of us who have been here. But there is one thing of which we should all be very proud: this Bill. Every time that we look across the sea, or we are on the sea, we can feel that we have done our bit to protect it. I would sound only one cautionary note: it has been difficult enough to get this legislation, but the real, tough proof will be in making it work.
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