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Session 2008 - 09
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General Committee Debates
Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill



The Committee consisted of the following Members:

Chairmen: Mr. Christopher Chope, † Mrs. Joan Humble
Blackman, Liz (Erewash) (Lab)
Brooke, Annette (Mid-Dorset and North Poole) (LD)
Butler, Ms Dawn (Brent, South) (Lab)
Creagh, Mary (Wakefield) (Lab)
Ennis, Jeff (Barnsley, East and Mexborough) (Lab)
Gibb, Mr. Nick (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)
Hayes, Mr. John (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon (Gateshead, East and Washington, West) (Lab)
Knight, Jim (Minister for Schools and Learners)
Laws, Mr. David (Yeovil) (LD)
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families)
Miller, Mrs. Maria (Basingstoke) (Con)
Seabeck, Alison (Plymouth, Devonport) (Lab)
Sharma, Mr. Virendra (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)
Simon, Mr. Siôn (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills)
Stuart, Mr. Graham (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
Thornberry, Emily (Islington, South and Finsbury) (Lab)
Walker, Mr. Charles (Broxbourne) (Con)
Wiggin, Bill (Leominster) (Con)
Williams, Stephen (Bristol, West) (LD)
Chris Shaw, James Davies, Committee Clerks
† attended the Committee

Public Bill Committee

Thursday 26 March 2009

(Morning)

[Mrs. Joan Humble in the Chair]

Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

Written evidence to be reported to the House
AS 25 The Foundation and Aided Schools National Association

Clause 125

Objectives
9.30 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families (Sarah McCarthy-Fry): I beg to move amendment 429, in clause 125, page 71, line 32, leave out ‘different types’ and insert ‘range’.
This technical drafting amendment ensures consistency in the way provisions of Part 7 refer to “qualifications”. That term is intended to refer to a particular type of qualification, such as a History GCSE, and not to a particular form of that qualification offered by a specific awarding body.
The Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 430 to 435, 440, 447 to 450, 459 to 463, 465, 466, 468 to 481, 485 and 503.
Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Good morning, Mrs. Humble. Welcome to the Chair on this lovely morning. These 35 related technical, drafting amendments are aimed primarily at making it clear throughout part 7 what use we are making of the term “qualification”. A qualification could be a class of qualification, such as an A-level, a particular type within that class, such as A-level maths, or a particular version of that type, such as awarding body X’s A-level maths. All those descriptions are relevant for the purposes of the Bill. For example, Ofqual will set accreditation criteria for types of qualification and will accredit versions of that type against those criteria. Amendment 503 does something similar in relation to the arrangements for regulation in Wales.
Many of the amendments add the word “form” into the clauses or are about the concept of a form of a qualification or a regulated qualification. For example, amendment 448 makes it clear that accreditation has to be in relation to a specific form of a qualification. The same amendment also allows Ofqual to vary the timing of when accreditation comes into force; that mirrors some of the amendments that we agreed on Tuesday.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Committee divided: Ayes 6, Noes 8.
Division No. 23]
AYES
Blackman, Liz
Butler, Ms Dawn
Ennis, Jeff
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Knight, rh Jim
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
NOES
Brooke, Annette
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Laws, Mr. David
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Stephen
Question accordingly negatived.
Amendment proposed: 430, in clause 125, page 71, line 38, after ‘any’ insert ‘relevant’.—(Sarah McCarthy-Fry.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 431. This technical drafting amendment is consequent on that amendment.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Committee divided: Ayes 6, Noes 8.
Division No. 24]
AYES
Blackman, Liz
Butler, Ms Dawn
Ennis, Jeff
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Knight, rh Jim
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
NOES
Brooke, Annette
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Laws, Mr. David
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Stephen
Question accordingly negatived.
Amendment proposed: 431, in clause 125, page 72, line 1, leave out from ‘a’ to ‘represent’ in line 2 and insert ‘qualification in respect of which the body is recognised under section 129’.—(Sarah McCarthy-Fry.)
This technical drafting amendment ensures consistency in the way in which the provisions of Part 7 refer to specific qualifications which an awarding body is recognises to award or authenticate under clasue 129(1).
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Committee divided: Ayes 7, Noes 8.
Division No. 25]
AYES
Blackman, Liz
Butler, Ms Dawn
Creagh, Mary
Ennis, Jeff
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Knight, rh Jim
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
NOES
Brooke, Annette
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Laws, Mr. David
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Stephen
Question accordingly negatived.
Amendment proposed: 432, in clause 125, page 72, line 2, at end add—‘(7) For the purposes of subsection (6) a sum is relevant if it is payable in respect of the award or authentication of the qualification in question.’.—(Sarah McCarthy-Fry.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for 431. This technical drafting amendment is consequent on that amendment.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes 8.
Division No. 26]
AYES
Blackman, Liz
Butler, Ms Dawn
Creagh, Mary
Ennis, Jeff
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Knight, rh Jim
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
Thornberry, Emily
NOES
Brooke, Annette
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Laws, Mr. David
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Stephen
The Chairman: In accordance with precedent, I give my vote to the Noes.
Question accordingly negatived.
Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The Minister for Schools and Learners (Jim Knight): On a point of order, Mrs. Humble. For clarification, will you advise the Committee on whether we have had a chance to have a stand part debate on the clause? Do we have that opportunity now?
The Chairman: I must advise the Minister that I moved that the clause stand part and waited for Members to indicate that they wished to take part in a clause stand part debate. No Member indicated that they did, so I have moved on to whether the clause should stand part of the Bill.
The Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes 8.
Division No. 27]
AYES
Blackman, Liz
Butler, Ms Dawn
Creagh, Mary
Ennis, Jeff
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Knight, rh Jim
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
Thornberry, Emily
NOES
Brooke, Annette
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Laws, Mr. David
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Stephen
 
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Prepared 27 March 2009