The
Chairman: We have now been sitting for over eight hours
since we reassembled after the one-hour break for dinner and we have
been sitting continuously for over three hours since the last
refreshment break. I have been reflecting on the comments which
were made following the short break which
concluded at 3 am and was designed for discussion
through the usual channels. Taking into account the
number of amendments and clauses left to the Committee to
consider; the time
available to complete consideration under the decisions of the House on
the programme motion and of the Committee’s programming
sub-committee; the imperative that the Chairman, members and staff
involved in supporting the Committee’s work are entitled to
reasonable rest and refreshment to enable them to operate effectively;
and the lack of notice of this prolonged sitting, which has meant that
my co-Chairman is absent, that the Hansard reporters and the
Refreshment Department have been unable to bring in substitutes, that
no staff were given notice of this, including the Clerks who have been
valiantly supporting the Committee since 9 o’clock on Thursday
and considering the powers that I have as Chairman to suspend the
sitting, I judge that, given all the circumstances that I have outlined
and other circumstances, we should suspend the sitting now and
reassemble at 8.15 am. I point out to right hon. and hon. Members that
the Refreshment Department reopens at 7.30 am for breakfast, which
members may wish to take before embarking on what may be another long
day’s deliberations.
Mr.
Simon: On a point of order, Mr. Chope. I am
grateful for that clarification. I could not help noting that you did
not mention taking into account the desires expressed by Labour Front
and Back Benchers to make progress with the
Bill——progress that was not aided by Opposition Members
taking more than an hour on the last group of amendments. Nor was it
expedited by your decision not to allow the Question to be put some
time into that hour. In the light of this very unusual suspension for a
very long period of time, which effectively denies us the opportunity
to sit through the night, and adjourning the sitting until the morning,
can you clarify the precedents for the decision, which is not in line
with the advice we received from the Clerk earlier in the
evening?
The
Chairman: The hon. Gentleman raises a point of order of
which I can assure him I have taken account. I have also taken into
account all the comments of hon. Members, the amount of time that is
left for consideration of the items that have yet to be discussed on
our agenda and the desire expressed by some Members to carry on sitting
indefinitely. I have to take all those issues into account, including
precedents and the fact that we are in a completely new situation
without precedent, where it is possible——I do not
know——that the Committee will not take advantage of the
possibility of sitting on Tuesday so that proceedings will be
concertinaed into one very long sitting.
The hon.
Member for Birmingham, Erdington may wish to reflect on the fact that
there was no need for people to be taken by surprise on this issue.
When I speak to my co-Chairman about it, I expect that she will be as
surprised as I am, and continue to be, that the fact that this was a
possibility was not shared with the Chair. If it had been shared, then
many of the problems that I addressed in my remarks, and the
conclusions I have reached, could have been avoided. The hon. Gentleman
said that we were not going to sit through the night. I am not going to
get into semantics, but many people would think that a virtually
continuous sitting from 8 pm after the one-hour break until
4.30 am is sitting into the night, although it may not be going right
through the night. I will not get involved in issues relating to
working time, because the Palace of Westminster is exempt from all
that, but I must take into account the sort of factors that lie behind
that type of legislation. I think we owe it, even if not to ourselves,
to the staff to have some reasonable consideration. Lots of short
breaks would not be sufficient if we face the prospect of another eight
or 10 hours of deliberation.
Jim
Knight: On a point of order, Mr. Chope. I do
not wish to delay things very much further. I understand what you are
saying and I appreciate the work the Clerks have done. I would
appreciate your advice as to whether the time of four hours is your
judgment or the advice of the Clerk.
The
Chairman: Ultimately, whether it is the Speaker, Deputy
Speaker or member of the Chairmen’s Panel, the judgment is a
judgment of that person——
Mr.
Simon: On a point of order, Mr
Chope.
The
Chairman: Order. I am answering one point of order. The
hon. Gentleman, who is a Minister, should know better than to interrupt
the Chair when he is responding to another point of order. That is the
sort of behaviour that should not be tolerated. I put it down to the
fact that people are suffering from fatigue.
We are in an
unprecedented situation and I am making my judgment. If people disagree
with it, they are free to do so, but what they cannot do is challenge
the ruling of the Chair. Without further ado, I am going to suspend the
sitting until 8.15 am.
4.30
am Sitting
Suspended.
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