Clause
29Inspections
by Her Majesty’s Inspectors of Constabulary
etc. Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill.
Mr.
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): I want to follow up the
arguments that have just been made by my hon. Friend the Member for
Ashford and to invite the Minister to explain to the Committee what the
powers will be used for. The clause takes powers to allow Her
Majesty’s
inspectors of constabulary to take their responsibilities to the agency.
My hon. Friend described the potential problems that could come from an
agency looking in several different directions, to different sets of
inspectors. Can
the Minister explain to the Committee what will happen in practice?
What powers will be exercised by the inspectors of constabulary that
will not be exercised by the chief inspector of the UK Border Agency
or, indeed, HMIP? The clause is clear about the role of the Comptroller
and Auditor General.
Mr.
Woolas: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and to the
hon. Member for Ashford. I acknowledge that it is a balanced argument.
My judgment was that, because there was a specific function of
detention within UKBA, the inspectorate that should look at that
function should be the one that is familiar with detention rather than
the institutional inspectorate, if I can put it that way. I will not
persuade the hon. Gentleman on that point—I can tell that by his
face—so I will answer the question.
As the hon.
Gentleman knows, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, the
Scottish inspectors and the Northern Ireland inspectors carry out
inspections of HMRC systems and procedures, including those in relation
to HMRC’s custody facilities. In the future, those facilities
will be shared between HMRC and UKBA. Therefore, it is essential to
adjust the inspection regime to allow for the continuation of suitable
arrangements for oversight. Under the clause, the same estate takes
power to make regulations to confer functions on Her Majesty’s
inspectorate of constabulary, the Scottish inspectors and the Northern
Ireland inspectors. That will enable the inspection of all immigration
and customs work carried out on our behalf by UKBA.
Those
regulations will establish the framework for commissioning and carrying
out the relevant inspections. For example, they will provide for a
report of any inspection to be made and, subject to any exceptions
required or committed by the regulations, to be published, as well as
for payment to be made, of course, to the inspectors.
These
measures are designed, as are the other provisions in the clause
dealing with inspection, to allow the continuation of existing
oversight arrangements, but those arrangements will be adapted to
reflect the provisions of part 1 of the Bill. So they do not represent
a significant extension of existing roles. To answer the hon.
Gentleman’s specific question, the Bill also provides that
inspections carried out in accordance with regulations made under the
clause may not address matters that are the responsibility of the
Comptroller and Auditor General under section 6 of the National Audit
Act 1983 and for any inspection or part of an inspection that is
carried out in Scotland to
be—
Mr.
Blunt: I am grateful to the Minister for giving that
explanation, some of which is found in the explanatory notes. However,
I fear that I am not getting very much wiser about where the inspector
of constabulary is going to work where the other inspectorates will not
work. The Minister seems to have focused on detention facilities, where
it would appear to be appropriate that Her Majesty’s
inspectorate of prisons would normally be in the lead, but I am not
clear as to when, in practice, the inspector of constabulary is going
to be involved.
Mr.
Woolas: There are a number of functions that Her
Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary currently inspects,
including customs detention facilities. The clause will enable the HMIC
to carry on inspecting those functions. However, not all customs
facilities are UKBA immigration and customs facilities; there are
examples outside of those facilities. The explanatory notes do not go
into detail on that issue, but that is the cover that we are trying to
provide for
ourselves. For
the record, I just want to point out that, as well as the exceptions
for the Comptroller and Auditor General, there is the exception for any
inspection or part of an inspection that is carried out in Scotland to
be carried out jointly by HMIC and the Scottish inspectors.
Question
put and agreed to.
Clause 29
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause
30Complaints
and misconduct
Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill.
6
pm
Tom
Brake: We tabled an amendment that unfortunately was a
starred amendment, so it is not subject to debate here. However, I
thought that I would use this opportunity to ask the Minister to
clarify precisely what is being achieved in the clause. The explanatory
notes suggest that, as a result of the
clause “the
IPCC may carry out investigations in relation to the exercise of
specified immigration and asylum enforcement functions by
contractors”— I
emphasise that word,
“contractors”— “and
in relation to the exercise of customs functions by (a) designated
customs officials and officials of the Secretary of
State”. Am
I right therefore that it will not be possible to make a complaint to
the Independent Police Complaints Commission about immigration
officials, as opposed to immigration contractors? If so, I hope the
Minister will explain why that is the case. Are there circumstances in
which a complaint could be made to the IPCC about the activities of
immigration or customs officials outside the
UK?
Mr.
Woolas: The hon. Gentleman did indeed table an amendment
that gave me notice to provide background information, which I have in
front of me. I thank him for raising the
point. I
will outline the background to clause 30 in relation to the IPCC.
Section 41 of the Police and Justice Act 2006 gives the Secretary of
State the power to make regulations conferring functions on the IPCC in
relation to the exercise by immigration officers and officials of the
Secretary of State of specified enforcement functions that relate to
immigration or asylum. Clause 30 will enable the Secretary of State to
extend further the functions of the IPCC to inspect any contractual
services provided in relation to the discharge of those enforcement
functions. It may also investigate the exercise of the general customs
functions by designated customs officials and officials of the
Secretary of State; the exercise of customs revenue functions by the
director and any
person exercising those functions on his behalf,
and; the provision of contractual services provided in relation to the
discharge of any of those customs
functions. The
clause is necessary to give the IPCC oversight of all immigration and
asylum-related enforcement functions and the customs functions that
will now be exercised by or on behalf of the UK Border Agency. It will
also have oversight of contractual services provided in relation to the
discharge of those functions. The IPCC already has an oversight role in
respect of the exercise of customs functions by HMRC. The clause will
ensure that it plays the same role when general and revenue customs
functions become exercisable by the UK Border Agency. The purpose of
the clause is the extension to
contractors. On
a pragmatic, day-to-day basis, the UK Border Agency works hand in glove
with the police. Many of our operations are carried out with the police
and many of our functions are carried out with their co-operation.
That is why, notwithstanding the point made in the previous debate, we
think it right to extend this power in recognition of the reality on
the
ground. Tom
Brake: Can the Minister also respond to the query about
whether it is possible to make a complaint to the IPCC in relation to
something that happens when an agency is working
abroad?
Mr.
Woolas: No, it is not. Our inspectorate covers the
functions that are carried out by our people overseas, but complaints
to the IPCC cannot be related to something that takes place overseas.
That is outside its
remit. Question
put and agreed
to. Clause
30 accordingly ordered to stand part of the
Bill. Ordered,
That further consideration be now adjourned.—(Steve
McCabe.) 6.4
pm Adjourned
till Thursday 11 June at Nine
o’clock.
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