Mr.
Goodman: I understand the distinction that the Minister is
drawing between bodies such as the CSA and regional development
agencies. However, it is hard to see, on the basis of the argument that
she is making, why Departments, Secretaries of State and some of the
machinery of national Government are not covered by the clause if the
Government want to go in that direction—unwisely, but there it
is. There is a limited reference to the Secretary of State in
subsection 2(c) in relation to the Offender Management Act 2007, but I
cannot see in the clause a reference to Secretaries of State more
broadly or to Departments. On the basis of the Minister’s logic,
I am curious to know why that is so. Perhaps I am missing
something.
Ms
Winterton: The Bill clearly applies to the delivery of
local services. As the national Government, we want to be able to
ensure that people understand how national Government works. There
tends to be greater confusion about where local responsibility lies
than in respect of where national Government have responsibility. That
is important, because as we were discussing earlier many people come to
our surgeries and think that we are delivering local housing and social
services. We are trying to get at how local authorities—the Bill
is about the delivery of local services—can promote a better
understanding of how those services are delivered. It is important that
we make it clear how people can get involved in some of the
decision-making and policy-shaping services
themselves.
Mr.
Jackson: I cannot quite follow the logic of the
Minister’s argument. She seems to be saying that there is a
strict distinction between the discursive bodies mentioned in the Bill,
which are effectively agencies of central Government, and “more
important” decision-taking and policy-making bodies such as the
strategic health authorities, which the hon. Member for Falmouth and
Camborne mentioned. The SHAs are important in delivering crucial
policies, such as clinical guidelines, throughout their area, as the
Minister knows. If the Government are keen on holding to account those
decision-taking and policy-making bodies, why in subsection (2)(e) has
she included further education institutions, which are not really
policy-making bodies, and not the Learning and Skills Council branches,
which, as we
have seen from the debacle over capital funding in FE, are the
policy-making bodies? Why is that distinction
made?
Ms
Winterton: Because local people are involved on the
governing bodies of further education colleges. My local FE college,
for example, is part of the community. It delivers training in
particular and works with local businesses, drawing up courses that
will reflect local needs and being part of that discussion. In my area,
there is heavy representation from further education colleges on the
local skills board and the local authority. The skills board working in
Barnsley is brilliant, Mr. Illsley. A key point that has
emerged is the inclusion of further education representatives on the
skills board, for example, because of the importance of the link with
local businesses. The further education colleges have certainly
welcomed their involvement in the process. I hope that I have helped
clarify a number of the issues raised by Opposition
Members. Because
of the structural changes made through the Further Education and
Training Act 2007, the LSC no longer has a local non-executive council
structure in place to which local people could be appointed. It would
not seem appropriate to list the LSC for the purposes of the
clause. I
hope that, having heard my explanations, Committee members will give
unanimous support for the clause, given that it is obviously a crucial
mechanism for delivering local understanding of and involvement in
public and other services. Question put, That the clause stand
part of the
Bill. The
Committee divided: Ayes 9, Noes
7.
Division
No.
2] Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause 2
ordered to stand part of the
Bill. 1
pm The
Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put
(Standing Order No.
88). Adjourned
till this day at half-past Four
o’clock.
|
