Clause
18Supplementary
scheme
provision Question
put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division
No.
15] Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause 18
ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clause
19Powers
of appropriate national
authority
Julia
Goldsworthy: I beg to move amendment 48, in
clause 19, page 12, line 29, leave
out subsection
(1).
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss
amendment 50, in
clause 19, page 13, line 1, leave
out subsection
(6).
Julia
Goldsworthy: I do not propose to detain the Committee for
long. The amendment repeats a point that has been made many times
already. Earlier in this chapter, there were discussions about how
councils could formulate their own policy on responding to petitions.
However, clause 19 then basically says that the Secretary of State can
do whatever he or she likes anyway and that the Government can impose
whatever schemes they like.
The
amendments would withdraw the provisions in the clause that allow the
Secretary of State to do whatever he or she likes. Subsection (1)
allows the appropriate national authority to make provisions as to what
a petition scheme must or must not contain, which seems exactly the
opposite of what the Minister says the Bill is intended to achieve,
because it involves central diktats. Subsection (6)
states: “The
appropriate national authority may direct a principal local authority
to make such revisions to its petition scheme as may be specified in
the direction”,
and so on.
Other aspects
of the clause are quite helpful. I do not see any problem with
providing a model petition scheme to make it easier for local
authorities to decide what they wish to take up, and I do not see any
reason why local authorities should not be provided with guidance, but
I see no reason why any national body should seek to dictate exactly
how any local authority should respond to a petition. For that reason,
I commend the amendments to the Committee.
Ms
Winterton: There are two principles here. We want to
ensure that if it is necessary to intervene in particular
circumstances—in extremis—that will happen. I assure the
Committee and particularly the hon. Lady that we do not intend to use
the power unless very particular problems occur. Obviously, all these
issues would be discussed with local authorities before any
intervention. 6.45
pm With
regard to amendment 50, it is important that we recognise that
legislation is not always a precise science. Some things are much too
detailed to put in the Bill and it is important that we have secondary
legislation to assist us. So I hope that, in these circumstances, the
hon. Lady will withdraw her
amendment.
Julia
Goldsworthy: I am afraid that I will have to disappoint
the Minister. These aspects of the clause seem to assume the worst of
all local authorities and the best of central Government, which is a
very dangerous assumption to make.
Mr.
Jackson: We can call this the BAA amendment. Let us
imagine that it was in place in a Bill when we were considering public
consultation and petitions with regard to the third runway. For what
possible reason would the Secretary of State wish to intervene in the
powers and duties of a local authority to tell it how to have a
petition? It seems to me that the provision is insidious and I am
delighted to support the hon. Lady on this
issue.
Julia
Goldsworthy: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. There are
serious questions to be asked about why the Government should seek to
specify how councils respond to petitions, let alone why they should
reserve the right to do so further in the future.
Question
put, That the amendment be
made. The
Committee divided: Ayes 5, Noes
8.
Division
No.
16] Question
accordingly negatived.
Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill.
Ms
Winterton: I want to clarify one thing quickly, because I
believe that I may have said that we do not intend to exercise the
clause 19 power. What we intend to do is to stipulate a 5 per cent.
figure to trigger a debate. It is very important that I put that
clarification on that
record. Question
put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division No.
17] Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause 19
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause
20Handling
of petitions by other bodies
Dan
Rogerson: I merely rise to point out, once again, that we
are talking about all sorts of bodies other than central Government
Departments. That is a problem with this system, other than the
fundamental flaw in the whole premise that the Government should
determine how local authorities respond to petitions. I find it
striking that local authorities and other bodies, but not Departments,
are being asked to look at
things. Question
put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division
No.
18]
Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause
20 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clause
21Orders Question
put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division
No.
19]
Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause
21 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clause
22Interpretation Question
put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division
No.
20] Question
accordingly agreed to.
Clause
22 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
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