Examination of Witnesses (Questions 260
- 279)
MONDAY 15 DECEMBER 2008
RT HON
PAT MCFADDEN
MP, MS PHILIPPA
LLOYD AND
MS BERNADETTE
KELLY
Q260 Chairman: Just one last question
from me before I move on, quite an important one. The PricewaterhouseCoopers
report was due last month and now I think is not due until next
month.
Mr McFadden: That is right.
Q261 Chairman: And yet the House
of Lords is beginning consideration of the Local Democracy and
Economic, Development and Construction Bill which makes changes
to the role and functions of RDAs. It does not seem very satisfactory
in terms of parliamentary scrutiny that an important piece of
evidence about the roles of RDAs is going to be available after
the Lords' Bill progress where the Bill adds responsibilities
on RDAs.
Mr McFadden: We hope to have this
out in the new year and you are right: we had hoped to do it this
side of Christmas. It is a major exercise. There are some 300
separate studies being pulled together in this in an evaluation
of a different kind from that which has been carried out on RDAs
before. This is really looking at outcomes and added value and,
despite the fact that you are right to say that it has been delayed
until the New Year, when it comes out it will still be hopefully
an important and valuable contribution to this debate.
Q262 Chairman: It is unsatisfactory
though, is it not, that the House of Lords is beginning its consideration
without knowing these conclusions.
Mr McFadden: If you say you are
going to produce something in November or December and it does
not come out until January, of course, you would rather that was
not the case, but, as ever with these things, it is important
to get the piece of work right too and that is what we are doing.
Q263 Chairman: My concern is that
the Government has already established its position in relation
to a whole range of issues that it has already published in the
Bill and yet the House of Commons and the House of Lords do not
know what PWC is going to say.
Mr McFadden: Where I would differ
with you is in suggesting that this delay makes a fundamental
difference to the Bill or that this PricewaterhouseCoopers research
is the defining moment in the whole policy on a Bill which covers
a whole number of areas, of which this is one. We will publish
that as soon as we can in the New Year but I do not think it somehow
hobbles our ability to legislate in the Bill that has been published.
Q264 Chairman: You can guarantee
that the PricewaterhouseCoopers report will be available before
the House of Commons gives consideration to the Bill?
Mr McFadden: When is the House
of Commons giving its consideration?
Q265 Chairman: You tell me.
Mr McFadden: As I say, we hope
to have it out in the New Year.
Q266 Chairman: Early in the New Year?
That is about April or May.
Mr McFadden: Hopefully before
that.
Q267 Chairman: January?
Mr McFadden: As I say, early in
the New Year.
Q268 Chairman: We know what "spring"
and "summer" and "early new year" mean to
government.
Mr McFadden: These are, as we
know, flexible parliamentary terms.
Q269 Chairman: You do understand
the importance we attach to seeing this very important systematic
evidence about the role and effectiveness of RDAs?
Mr McFadden: I understand the
point you are making.
Chairman: I do not think we will be able
to reach a final report until we have seen it. I accept your comments
but I think we want to hold back on our final judgment until we
have seen that report.
Miss Kirkbride: We have just been mentioning
that there is always going to be some dissatisfaction about the
boundaries that the RDAs cover, but it also seems to me that RDAs
were started with the idea of being economic development authorities,
or whatever that might be, but now they have just become anything
the Government wants them to be. There is no boundary to what
they do. For example, the Chairman said, which I would not necessarily
agree with but he has had more flooding than I have, that the
RDAs did very well when it came to flooding. Why do RDAs deal
with flooding when Worcestershire County Council is perfectly
capable of doing that and they are actually in charge of the roads
and the sewers?
Q270 Chairman: They were dealing
with the economic consequences of the flooding, to be precise.
Mr McFadden: When I say they "did
flooding", what I meant was that they responded quickly in
a business sense. The RDAs were not helping people whose homes
had been flooded out. They were helping businesses which had perhaps
lost stock or had some damage with short-term loans. I will give
you another example—and I hope we do not all retreat to
West Midlands examples today because the three of us represent
West Midlands constituencies—that really affected the region's
tourism infrastructure, which was the destruction of the Severn
Valley Railway. The RDA was able to work with the Severn Valley
Railway to get that back up and running as quickly as possible.
There was a lot of public support for that too. I met with businesses
there while the reconstruction work was happening and the RDA
was able to do an important job in marketing the region by saying,
"Come and visit. We are not closed down because of the floods.
The region's tourism infrastructure is still there despite the
fact that the railways are not running". That is something
that no single local authority would have been able to do, so
I think there was a role there, again, between central government
and local government which the RDA was able to do quite effectively.
Q271 Miss Kirkbride: But where are
the boundaries as to what the RDAs should do? What are the boundaries?
Why has this become an alternative government?
Mr McFadden: Because an alternative
government, if you like, or a regional government might be delivering
health services, it might be delivering welfare benefits, all
sorts of things.
Q272 Miss Kirkbride: Can you put
in your own words what the boundaries are?
Mr McFadden: It is economic and
business focus.
Q273 Miss Kirkbride: Then what about
transport?
Mr McFadden: Transport is very
important to the economy.
Q274 Miss Kirkbride: So they are
do transport as well? It is not just economic and business; it
is transport.
Mr McFadden: We are going to talk
about regional strategies later on, I believe. I think any regional
strategy which was focused on economic and business issues which
did not take transport into account would be quite quickly criticised
for not doing so.
Q275 Miss Kirkbride: And therefore
what role should it have in transport?
Mr McFadden: I believe that the
RDA in the development of its strategy, along with the local authority
partners under the SNR, should be able to make long term recommendations
on transport, working with the central government departments.
It is an important part of the strategy.
Q276 Miss Kirkbride: Recommendations?
Mr McFadden: Yes.
Q277 Miss Kirkbride: What about money?
Mr McFadden: They would get money
for that if central government bought into it, if they were funding
this particular transport budget. It would depend on whether it
was a major one funded by central government or a local one which
would be funded by local authorities.
Q278 Miss Kirkbride: But they also
manage to do that as well, do they not? They manage to put money
into transport schemes.
Mr McFadden: Some of them have
put money into transport schemes. For example, near my own constituency
a few miles away we have the i54 development which is a major
new business opportunity on the outskirts of Wolverhampton. The
RDA was able to put some money into making sure there was a proper
spur from there to the motorway. That is an important added value
role, precisely on that boundary between transport and business.
Q279 Miss Kirkbride: The Government
has quite a lot of money to put into transport, does it not? It
has an awful lot of money to put into transport when it wants
to, so it is doing transport as well, but the problem with that,
Minister, is that you have a situation—and I do speak with
a constituency interest here where we have a station in Bromsgrove,
and in the old days— you may smile but that is very serious
to the people who live in the West Midlands between Birmingham
and Worcester.
Mr McFadden: It is very serious.
| 
