Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1-19)
DR JANE
MARTIN
12 OCTOBER 2009
Q1 Chair: Can I welcome you, Dr Martin,
and if I could start off with a couple of relatively easy questions
and then we will move on to others later. First of all, can I
ask you about the recruitment process that you have been through.
How did you come into the system? Did you respond to an advert?
In what way did you first get into the system for this appointment?
Dr Martin: Thank you. Basically
I applied to a national advertisement which I think was in the
Sunday Times, if I recall correctly, around about May time,
I responded to that advertisement. At the same time I had been
in touch with the agency who is dealing with the recruitment in
relation to another post and they signposted me to the advertisement.
I responded to that advertisement and put in my full application
as a result of which I went through the recruitment process, which
was a series of interviews.
Q2 Chair: How have you prepared for
this hearing?
Dr Martin: I have refreshed my
memory of the information that I provided to the interview panels
which was quite a few weeks ago now. I have made sure, also, that
I am completely up-to-date on the current work of the Ombudsman
and the kind of issues that I thought you might be interested
to hear from me about.
Q3 Chair: Okay. I noticed that you
have a post as a Non-Executive Director of the Coventry Primary
Care Trust. The Ombudsman's job is a full-time job, are you intending
to retain that other appointment?
Dr Martin: No, I am not. I made
it clear at the interview process and have now spoken to the Chair
of Coventry PCT and made it clear that I will not continue with
that post if I am successful with this one.
Q4 Mr Cummings: Would you tell the
Committee why you believe the role of the Ombudsman is important?
Dr Martin: I believe the role
of the Ombudsman is important because it is one of the most significant
ways in which members of the public can make their complaints
heard at a high level and be guaranteed independence and fairness
in being dealt with in that complaint and to seek redress against
maladministration of local government.
Q5 Mr Cummings: Would you tell the
Committee how your experience to date prepares you for this job?
Dr Martin: Yes, I am happy to
do that. Over 20 years I think there are three things I would
like to highlight. The first is that I have got a very good understanding
and expertise in local administration based on having a breadth
of experience across the public sector, having worked in local
government, health and education. I think I also bring a very
wide perspective of issues in public accountability and indeed
the challenges that all local organisations face in securing good
public accountability. I think my perspective is both from the
point of view of the official and also from the point of view
of the consumer and the citizen.
Q6 Sir Paul Beresford: You have not
had a senior post in local government, have you? You have not
been a chief executive or deputy chief executive?
Dr Martin: That is true, I have
not been a chief executive.
Q7 Sir Paul Beresford: How senior
is the most senior post you have had in local government?
Dr Martin: I have not had a senior
post in local government but I have had a senior post in other
national organisations. The ones I would draw to your attention
are that I was Executive Director of the Centre for Public Scrutiny
and I am also currently Deputy Chief Executive of the Local Better
Regulation Office.
Q8 Sir Paul Beresford: That is quite
different from local government, local government problems, dealing
with the problems of the public in local government and vice versa.
Dr Martin: I hope that what I
will do is I will bring a wider perspective than perhaps somebody
who has just worked as a chief executive. I am well aware that
the other Local Government Ombudsmen are chief executives. I hope
what I will bring to the Local Commission is a wider perspective
based on having worked with a number of local authorities when
I was a consultant for the Improvement and Development Agency
and also, in fact, working for the Centre for Public Scrutiny.
Q9 Sir Paul Beresford: The problem
with that is that effectively you are one of three separate geographically
so you will only bring it to your area, if in fact it is a valid
point.
Dr Martin: I hope that will not
be the case. I will also be Vice-Chair of the Commission and hope
that I will be working very much as part of a team with my colleagues.
Q10 Mr Cummings: Are there any aspects
of the role that you will find particularly challenging?
Dr Martin: I do believe that I
have got the breadth of skills and experience to tackle this role,
however one of the first things I will do is make sure that I
am up to speed on the recent work of the Ombudsman and also any
areas of public law which will be important for me to have knowledge
of.
Q11 Mr Cummings: So you are just
entering the job and you do not think there will be any particular
aspects that you will be dealing with that you will find to be
problematic?
Dr Martin: I think I have just
explained that there are two areas that could be problematic.
One is making sure that I have got sufficient knowledge around
areas of law and also sufficient knowledge and content around
the work of the Ombudsman. However, as you perhaps will have picked
up from my CV, I have worked in different areas across the public
sector and I am fairly confident that I can pick up a new brief
very quickly.
Q12 Mr Cummings: In those particular
areas will you have adequate support within your department?
Dr Martin: I hope so, but in all
honesty that remains to be seen. Certainly from early conversations
I have had with other colleagues in the Commission I feel that
I will be working in a very supportive environment.
Q13 Anne Main: What would you say
the main challenges are for local authorities at present given
that you do not have a specific local authority role that you
can draw on?
Dr Martin: May I just ask for
clarification. Do you mean the wider issues that face local government
or in relation to the Ombudsman work?
Q14 Anne Main: No, the wider issues
facing local government and also the challenges reflecting complaints
from members of the public.
Dr Martin: I would say that the
wider issues facing local government at the moment are perhaps
two-fold. One is, of course, the question of public funding. All
public authorities will be very mindful of the fact that there
will be a squeeze on public funding and local authorities will
be no exception to that. I know from the work that I have been
doing in my current role that local authorities are very much
looking to the ways in which they can make efficiencies, thinking
of things like shared services, et cetera. The other point that
I was going to make is that the way in which public services are
delivered at the local level have of course been changing over
many years and the local authority is less the direct provider
of services than perhaps the commissioner of services. I know
there are particular issues in the way in which public services
around health and social care are integrated effectively between
local authorities and the primary care trust.
Q15 Anne Main: You just touched on
one thing I would like to explore a little further. You accept
that there is going to be a major cutback potentially in funding.
The 2008-09 LGO Annual Report, prior to the economic situation
we are now in, suggested you are faced with an increased workload
and diminishing resources. Now that sounds like it is only going
to get worse, so are we expecting an impossible job?
Dr Martin: It is certainly going
to be tough, I assume you are referring to the Ombudsman Service
now. It is certainly going to be tough, and the Ombudsman Service
will be no exception to other public services having to deliver
more for less, particularly at a time when of course there are
new responsibilities coming through to the Service for personal
social care and for schools. My approach to this would be very
much to be looking at demand management based, of course, on experience
to date but having to think about forecasting how demand could
be managed in the future.
Q16 Anne Main: You have handled situations
like this in the past. Can you give us some examples?
Dr Martin: I have got examples
of having worked as a consultant with the IDeA with a number of
local authorities, for example working with Hertfordshire and
its districts to think about how they would manage demand for
a new call centre which they wanted to collaborate on under the
e.government scheme. I have also done work in that role for what
was then the Equal Opportunities Commission looking at the way
in which they manage demand for their contact call centre.
Q17 Sir Paul Beresford: How are you
going to manage the expansion of the LGO as the money tightens
because the role of the LGO has expanded recently?
Dr Martin: I think one of the
things we will have to think more carefully about perhaps is proportionality.
From what I understand at the moment the advice centre, which
was initiated some 18 months ago, has made quite a difference
to the way in which the work is managed so that there is, if you
like, a triage system at the beginning of the complaints process,
and that means that complaints that come through are often more
complex and require more detailed investigation. It may be that
we can look at ways in which we can develop that approach by thinking
about the proportionality of the complaints, perhaps the significance
of the complaint, the question about to what extent there has
been maladministration. In short, to answer your question, I think
proportionality is important.
Q18 Sir Paul Beresford: For every
complainant that complaint is the number one thing.
Dr Martin: Of course, yes. Yes,
I do accept that it is quite a difficult matter because we also
need to ensure that all complainants are treated fairly and get
a fair hearing.
Q19 Sir Paul Beresford: Have you
ever had a job facing complaints?
Dr Martin: Yes, I have. I was
a member of a school governing body for around about 10 years.
I am a parent of two children. On the governing body I certainly
worked with parents and helped them to put forward complaints
to the head teacher in that role.
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