Appointment of the Local Government Ombudsman and Vice-Chair of the Commission for Local Administration in England - Communities and Local Government Committee Contents


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1-19)

DR JANE MARTIN

12 OCTOBER 2009

  Q1 Chair: Can I welcome you, Dr Martin, and if I could start off with a couple of relatively easy questions and then we will move on to others later. First of all, can I ask you about the recruitment process that you have been through. How did you come into the system? Did you respond to an advert? In what way did you first get into the system for this appointment?

  Dr Martin: Thank you. Basically I applied to a national advertisement which I think was in the Sunday Times, if I recall correctly, around about May time, I responded to that advertisement. At the same time I had been in touch with the agency who is dealing with the recruitment in relation to another post and they signposted me to the advertisement. I responded to that advertisement and put in my full application as a result of which I went through the recruitment process, which was a series of interviews.

  Q2  Chair: How have you prepared for this hearing?

  Dr Martin: I have refreshed my memory of the information that I provided to the interview panels which was quite a few weeks ago now. I have made sure, also, that I am completely up-to-date on the current work of the Ombudsman and the kind of issues that I thought you might be interested to hear from me about.

  Q3  Chair: Okay. I noticed that you have a post as a Non-Executive Director of the Coventry Primary Care Trust. The Ombudsman's job is a full-time job, are you intending to retain that other appointment?

  Dr Martin: No, I am not. I made it clear at the interview process and have now spoken to the Chair of Coventry PCT and made it clear that I will not continue with that post if I am successful with this one.

  Q4  Mr Cummings: Would you tell the Committee why you believe the role of the Ombudsman is important?

  Dr Martin: I believe the role of the Ombudsman is important because it is one of the most significant ways in which members of the public can make their complaints heard at a high level and be guaranteed independence and fairness in being dealt with in that complaint and to seek redress against maladministration of local government.

  Q5  Mr Cummings: Would you tell the Committee how your experience to date prepares you for this job?

  Dr Martin: Yes, I am happy to do that. Over 20 years I think there are three things I would like to highlight. The first is that I have got a very good understanding and expertise in local administration based on having a breadth of experience across the public sector, having worked in local government, health and education. I think I also bring a very wide perspective of issues in public accountability and indeed the challenges that all local organisations face in securing good public accountability. I think my perspective is both from the point of view of the official and also from the point of view of the consumer and the citizen.

  Q6  Sir Paul Beresford: You have not had a senior post in local government, have you? You have not been a chief executive or deputy chief executive?

  Dr Martin: That is true, I have not been a chief executive.

  Q7  Sir Paul Beresford: How senior is the most senior post you have had in local government?

  Dr Martin: I have not had a senior post in local government but I have had a senior post in other national organisations. The ones I would draw to your attention are that I was Executive Director of the Centre for Public Scrutiny and I am also currently Deputy Chief Executive of the Local Better Regulation Office.

  Q8  Sir Paul Beresford: That is quite different from local government, local government problems, dealing with the problems of the public in local government and vice versa.

  Dr Martin: I hope that what I will do is I will bring a wider perspective than perhaps somebody who has just worked as a chief executive. I am well aware that the other Local Government Ombudsmen are chief executives. I hope what I will bring to the Local Commission is a wider perspective based on having worked with a number of local authorities when I was a consultant for the Improvement and Development Agency and also, in fact, working for the Centre for Public Scrutiny.

  Q9  Sir Paul Beresford: The problem with that is that effectively you are one of three separate geographically so you will only bring it to your area, if in fact it is a valid point.

  Dr Martin: I hope that will not be the case. I will also be Vice-Chair of the Commission and hope that I will be working very much as part of a team with my colleagues.

  Q10  Mr Cummings: Are there any aspects of the role that you will find particularly challenging?

  Dr Martin: I do believe that I have got the breadth of skills and experience to tackle this role, however one of the first things I will do is make sure that I am up to speed on the recent work of the Ombudsman and also any areas of public law which will be important for me to have knowledge of.

  Q11  Mr Cummings: So you are just entering the job and you do not think there will be any particular aspects that you will be dealing with that you will find to be problematic?

  Dr Martin: I think I have just explained that there are two areas that could be problematic. One is making sure that I have got sufficient knowledge around areas of law and also sufficient knowledge and content around the work of the Ombudsman. However, as you perhaps will have picked up from my CV, I have worked in different areas across the public sector and I am fairly confident that I can pick up a new brief very quickly.

  Q12  Mr Cummings: In those particular areas will you have adequate support within your department?

  Dr Martin: I hope so, but in all honesty that remains to be seen. Certainly from early conversations I have had with other colleagues in the Commission I feel that I will be working in a very supportive environment.

  Q13  Anne Main: What would you say the main challenges are for local authorities at present given that you do not have a specific local authority role that you can draw on?

  Dr Martin: May I just ask for clarification. Do you mean the wider issues that face local government or in relation to the Ombudsman work?

  Q14  Anne Main: No, the wider issues facing local government and also the challenges reflecting complaints from members of the public.

  Dr Martin: I would say that the wider issues facing local government at the moment are perhaps two-fold. One is, of course, the question of public funding. All public authorities will be very mindful of the fact that there will be a squeeze on public funding and local authorities will be no exception to that. I know from the work that I have been doing in my current role that local authorities are very much looking to the ways in which they can make efficiencies, thinking of things like shared services, et cetera. The other point that I was going to make is that the way in which public services are delivered at the local level have of course been changing over many years and the local authority is less the direct provider of services than perhaps the commissioner of services. I know there are particular issues in the way in which public services around health and social care are integrated effectively between local authorities and the primary care trust.

  Q15  Anne Main: You just touched on one thing I would like to explore a little further. You accept that there is going to be a major cutback potentially in funding. The 2008-09 LGO Annual Report, prior to the economic situation we are now in, suggested you are faced with an increased workload and diminishing resources. Now that sounds like it is only going to get worse, so are we expecting an impossible job?

  Dr Martin: It is certainly going to be tough, I assume you are referring to the Ombudsman Service now. It is certainly going to be tough, and the Ombudsman Service will be no exception to other public services having to deliver more for less, particularly at a time when of course there are new responsibilities coming through to the Service for personal social care and for schools. My approach to this would be very much to be looking at demand management based, of course, on experience to date but having to think about forecasting how demand could be managed in the future.

  Q16  Anne Main: You have handled situations like this in the past. Can you give us some examples?

  Dr Martin: I have got examples of having worked as a consultant with the IDeA with a number of local authorities, for example working with Hertfordshire and its districts to think about how they would manage demand for a new call centre which they wanted to collaborate on under the e.government scheme. I have also done work in that role for what was then the Equal Opportunities Commission looking at the way in which they manage demand for their contact call centre.

  Q17  Sir Paul Beresford: How are you going to manage the expansion of the LGO as the money tightens because the role of the LGO has expanded recently?

  Dr Martin: I think one of the things we will have to think more carefully about perhaps is proportionality. From what I understand at the moment the advice centre, which was initiated some 18 months ago, has made quite a difference to the way in which the work is managed so that there is, if you like, a triage system at the beginning of the complaints process, and that means that complaints that come through are often more complex and require more detailed investigation. It may be that we can look at ways in which we can develop that approach by thinking about the proportionality of the complaints, perhaps the significance of the complaint, the question about to what extent there has been maladministration. In short, to answer your question, I think proportionality is important.

  Q18  Sir Paul Beresford: For every complainant that complaint is the number one thing.

  Dr Martin: Of course, yes. Yes, I do accept that it is quite a difficult matter because we also need to ensure that all complainants are treated fairly and get a fair hearing.

  Q19  Sir Paul Beresford: Have you ever had a job facing complaints?

  Dr Martin: Yes, I have. I was a member of a school governing body for around about 10 years. I am a parent of two children. On the governing body I certainly worked with parents and helped them to put forward complaints to the head teacher in that role.


 
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