Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1-19)
MR ROBERT
UPTON CBE AND
DR PAULEEN
LANE CBE
20 JULY 2009
Q1 Chair: Can I welcome the pair of you
and, just for the sake of the record, point out that Neil Turner,
Alison Seabeck and myself all know Dr Lane. If I could start the
questioning, and maybe I will start first with Mr Upton, but I
am actually going to ask the same questions of Dr Lane, and ask
about the recruitment process. Mr Upton, can you explain whether
you responded to an advert or were you headhunted?
Mr Upton: I responded
to an advertisement which I saw, I think, in the Sunday Times.
Q2 Chair: What made you interested
in the job?
Mr Upton: I think this is an area
of activity which I have been associated with on and off pretty
much throughout my career, major projects and planning, and in
my current professional post at the Royal Town Planning Institute
I have watched the development of the Bill, now the Act, and I
have to say that I am a great believer in the need for the Planning
Act 2008 and the IPC, and it seemed to me something that I wanted
to support tangibly by trying to be part of it.
Q3 Chair: The final question is what
have you done to prepare for this hearing.
Mr Upton: I have read a great
deal but I have read a great deal in rather a short space of time,
as I have been furnished with documents, so I would not say that
I had mastered all the documents that I have been given. Obviously,
ever since the Bill became law, I have been following the developments
towards the IPC and the developments of the drafting of the Regulations
and the Guidance.
Q4 Chair: Dr Lane, the same questions:
did you respond to an advert or were you headhunted?
Dr Lane: I did respond to an advert.
I actually found it on the Public Appointments website.
Q5 Chair: Again, what made you interested
in the job and how have you prepared for this hearing?
Dr Lane: You have probably gathered
from my CV that I am interested in infrastructure generally from
my background as an engineer. I had followed some of the debates
that came out of Barker and Eddington, and I was similarly interested
in the body that helps to move forward very difficult issues.
I am somebody who likes a challenge, so that was my primary interest.
Q6 Chair: And preparing for the hearing?
Dr Lane: Again, a lot of reading
and quite a lot of thinking actually. Actually, the interview
process was quite challenging as well; we had several stages to
it, which gave time to reflect on some of the big issues in the
run-up to actually coming here, so things about sustainable development,
human rights, et cetera—a lot of thinking.
Q7 Chair: This role is intended to
take up three days a week. Each of you has quite a considerable
number of other commitments. Starting with Dr Lane, what are you
getting rid of? What are you going to be doing in the other two
days of the week?
Dr Lane: I will be retiring from
my main role, which is teaching a Masters course in geotechnical
engineering at Manchester University. I will be retiring from
my main academic role, which is running the Masters course at
Manchester University, which is two and a half days a week at
present. I will also be retiring from the Coal Authority.
Q8 Chair: How much time does the
Coal Authority take at the moment?
Dr Lane: The Coal Authority is
one to two days a week but the issue there is primarily the question
about balancing its role as a statutory consultee, and I think
it is appropriate that I deal with that.
Q9 Chair: How many days does that
leave you contracted with the TSA and the New Local Government
Network?
Dr Lane: The New Local Government
Network is primarily just an informal advisory role. I am a trustee.
We have quarterly meetings for a couple of hours in the evening.
The Tenant Services Authority is one stroke two days a month.
Q10 Chair: And the Theatres Trust?
Dr Lane: The Theatres Trust is
one day a quarter.
Q11 Chair: Finally, how many days
a week do you devote to your duties as a councillor?
Dr Lane: Trafford Borough Council
has almost all its meetings exclusively in the evening so it is
less about time during the day and more about going to council
meetings, which is about once every eight weeks, and then Saturday
morning advice surgeries, that sort of thing. That is my primary
commitment. I would say it is probably about one or two evenings
a month, because I also do some scrutiny roles.
Q12 John Cummings: How many working
weeks are there in the year?
Dr Lane: Forty-eight.
Q13 John Cummings: Forty-eight working
weeks; two days a week for 48 weeks.
Dr Lane: Three days a week.
John Cummings: Thank you.
Q14 Sir Paul Beresford: I think you
said you were staying on the Tenant Services Authority. Do you
see the possibility of a clash there?
Dr Lane: I have discussed that
very clearly both with the Department and with the TSA themselves.
There is no obvious overlap at all because, obviously, its primary
role is establishing itself as the regulator for social housing.
There is no conflict in terms of the planning role. I am on there
for one term only as part of the setup process and actually that
has been extremely busy over the previous year but I think is
settling down now. I have read through the issues about conflict
of interest very carefully and I cannot see any way in which that
is a conflict in terms of process.
Q15 Chair: Mr Upton?
Mr Upton: I have no other paid
employment other than my role as the Secretary General of the
Royal Town Planning Institute. Various roles as, for example,
Secretary of the Planning Summer School and as a member of the
Board of the RTPI Services, the trading company, would simply
fall away when I left the RTPI. The other roles that I have listed
in my CV, such as Visiting Professor at Sheffield University and
Member of the Council of the Academy for Social Sciences are what
I would regard as occasional roles; they do not take up significant
amounts of time. My editorial work likewise is at weekends and
so I would not feel the need to give up anything more than that
which I will be giving up with my work. You are correct in saying
that the job is contracted for three days a week but there is,
I think, the possibility of more, and certainly in the early stages
of the Commission, I would wish to keep myself free to put in
any extra effort that was required.
Q16 Chair: It has been pointed out,
Dr Lane, that you are also on the Football Licensing Authority.
Dr Lane: Yes, that is one day
a month.
Q17 Dr Pugh: Mr Upton, how does your
experience to date prepare you for the role of Deputy Chair and
equally, what are the gaps in your experience that you are going
to need to fill in order to perform adequately in that role?
Mr Upton: As said, I have been
involved in one way or another with many major projects, some
infrastructure, some new towns projects, both in my 20 years with
the old Hong Kong Government and indeed in my local government
service, and then in the policy work which I have involved in
with the Royal Town Planning Institute. So it is certainly something
that I have been thinking about and exposed to. I have taken part
in decision-making processes on significant developments, certainly
when I was Director of Planning in Hong Kong and a member of the
Town Planning Board. I think it is fair to say though that this
is a new departure, so I think that it is a very large and demanding
task. I have not, I think, been exposed so far to a process which
is so very, very rigorous in procedural terms. I think that must
represent a learning curve for me but I am confident that, given
my background, I can tackle that.
Q18 Dr Pugh: Dr Lane, you have a
wide diversity of experience possibly but, again, what do you
think has prepared you for this particular role and what omissions
are there still that you would like to fill?
Dr Lane: I obviously have some
advantage in having been a deputy chair of a significant public
body for a number of years so I have some idea as to the likely
roles within that. I have fairly wide experience as a non-executive
director in terms of the question of organising a body and challenging
its arrangements. Obviously, the big issue for us is in terms
of the technical detail that will be required when considering
individual proposals. That is something which I have some background
in to start with, but will be something that I would wish to turn
a lot more attention to as we move towards the actual consideration
of applications.
Q19 Dr Pugh: Following through on
that, there are going to be some controversial plans you will
have to oversee decisions on, things like nuclear power stations,
wind farms and so on. What is there in your previous experience
to demonstrate you have the necessary skills to see those safely
through?
Dr Lane: I cannot claim a specialism
in relation to nuclear power or in relation to wind farms but
I have had a fairly extensive technical training as an engineer
and I do have some experience expertise in the area around underground
workings, which I think will be—
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