Examination of Witness (Question Numbers
40-59)
DR COLETTE
BOWE
13 JANUARY 2009
Q40 Mr Bailey: On the other hand,
it could be cheaper for the consumer as you balance the interests.
Dr Bowe: Well, that is the point
really, is it not, how you balance these things off? I am sort
of drifting here into talking about football issues which are
not my responsibility and I had probably better bring it back
to the reality.
Q41 Mr Bailey: We could have another
meeting to do all that.
Dr Bowe: I had better bring it
back to the reality of the facts, that Ofcom's job here is purely
to be concerned with competition issues. It is not our job to
be concerned about the sort of public policy dimension of, for
example, was it the England-Croatia game that so many people were
upset about in the autumn?
Q42 Mr Bailey: Yes, that is right.
Dr Bowe: Sadly, that is not part
of Ofcom's remit, that kind of public policy issue. Our job is
competition issues, and I think I probably have to confine myself
to that.
Q43 Mr Bailey: The bottom line is:
do you think it will be cheaper to watch live football on pay-TV
in the future?
Dr Bowe: I do not know the answer
to that. I would hope that it was, and I say that both as a regulator
and as a passionate fan.
Q44 Mr Hoyle: Can I just take that
last point up. Will you class it as a failure if it is not cheaper
for people to watch because presumably the remit is actually to
help consumers?
Dr Bowe: Yes.
Q45 Mr Hoyle: Competition is wonderful,
but there has to be a benefit from competition.
Dr Bowe: Yes.
Q46 Mr Hoyle: Surely, the benefit
must be that it is cheaper for consumers, so will it be a failure
if you do not get the product cheaper?
Dr Bowe: A good question. From
the consumer's point of view, what would be the kind of outcome
that you want? Do you want it cheaper? Do you want it available
on more channels? Do you want a choice?
Q47 Mr Hoyle: Well, I think it is
a bit like going to football, is it not, that only certain people
can afford to go and the rest of the people cannot, so it is about
encouraging and helping those who cannot watch TV at the moment
to watch their passionate game cheaper.
Dr Bowe: I think I would regard
a good result as people having more choice of where they could
watch it actually.
Q48 Mr Hoyle: What does that mean?
Dr Bowe: A wider range of channels
on which it was available.
Q49 Mr Hoyle: Right, but, if you
cannot afford to watch it, is that a failure?
Dr Bowe: I think we are getting
into a sort of hypothetical area.
Q50 Mr Hoyle: Do you believe it should
be cheaper or not? Let us make it straightforward and simple,
yes or no?
Dr Bowe: I do not think I can
really give you an opinion on that because it depends on the commercial
deals that have been struck.
Q51 Mr Hoyle: Excuse the pun, but
you must have a goal and an objective and the goal must be surely
to actually get the prices down because the idea is that competition
is meant to make it cheaper for everybody.
Dr Bowe: You would predict that,
if there were more competition in this marketplace, then the prices
would fall, but I think the main objective of even raising this,
and, by the way, this is just at the stage where we are consulting
on this, I think the objective is to consider whether more competition
could be introduced into this marketplace, and I would really
like to emphasise that Ofcom has not concluded its consultation
on this.
Q52 Mr Hoyle: Most people in this
country actually find it obscene, the amount of money that is
going into football, that it does not go into development, but
it actually goes into the obscene wages, and the thing that they
would like to see is the price coming down to allow more people
to watch it.
Dr Bowe: Speaking personally,
and sorry, Chairman, perhaps I am banging on too much about football,
but I was just about to say something about the price of tickets
to go to a live game, but I will shut up because I am in danger
of getting away from Ofcom's remit here, but we will talk about
that later.
Mr Whittingdale: Now, let us move on
to public service broadcasting.
Q53 Mr Evans: I would just like to
make one request though on the football thing that Lindsay has
brought up, which is that you want more people to have access
to it and more cheaply and one area which I would love you to
look at is the pricing of football on TV in pubs. For a lot of
people who have got small pubs, they just cannot afford the subscriptions
because it is done on old rateable values, and one great thing
that Ofcom could do would be to allow the smaller pubs, not the
mega-pubs, the smaller pubs which do not have many people, the
opportunity for those pubs to be able to subscribe at a realistic
level, so please can you look into that?
Dr Bowe: I will take it on board.
I do not know how that market works, but can I take it away?
Q54 Mr Evans: Please. On public service
television, what do you think the state of public service television
in the UK is at the moment?
Dr Bowe: What do I think the state
is? I think it is a very difficult moment for public service broadcasting.
Before I get into the substance of this, Chairman, I wonder if
I could say something general. You are all extremely aware that
Ofcom is due to make a considered statement on its proposals on
public service broadcasting quite shortly, and I mentioned a little
while ago that there is an Ofcom Board meeting discussing the
final version of that today. I am afraid this means that there
is not a great deal by way of specifics that I can say to you,
Mr Evans, and indeed other members of the Committee, and I would
like earnestly to apologise for that. I know how deeply unsatisfactory
it is for you for a witness to come along and speak in generalities
about an issue of such importance, but, I am afraid, I cannot
pre-empt that document and I particularly cannot talk about any
issues that are market-sensitive, and I know you understand that.
What I would like to say in order to make this slightly less of
a disappointing moment is that, as soon as we can, I would very
much like to come back and talk to you about our position, but,
I am afraid, at this moment I cannot be at all precise about any
of the issues, including some that were raised only yesterday
by Michael Grade and Mark Thompson. I am really sorry, but, I
am afraid, that is just sort of where we are.
Q55 Mr Evans: So that rules out anything
about a Channel 4/Channel Five merger!
Dr Bowe: Shall we move swiftly
on!
Mr Whittingdale: I can hear a dying fox
somewhere!
Q56 Mr Evans: There is one other
aspect of public service television which I think you can comment
on. You say that sometimes Ofcom can have a hard touch, that it
does not seem to have a quick touch, and I will go back to the—
Dr Bowe: It does not seem to have
a quick touch?
Q57 Mr Evans: No, it does not. The
investigation into the Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand affair,
when can we expect that report to come out?
Dr Bowe: I do not know when that
process is going to be concluded. The reason any of these processes
takes a long time, and now I am not speaking specifically about
that particular case, but this is sort of what happens, there
is quite a heavy process around those kinds of complaints partly
because the sanctions, the things that flow, are actually quite
heavy, and I think you would expect, and in fact the legislation
requires, us to be very, very meticulous in how we do this. The
decisions can be appealed and Ofcom can be judicially reviewed
for its handling of such cases, all of which means that you do
not do them in five minutes. I know that is a deeply tedious,
bureaucratic and quango-ish sort of response, but that is how
the legislation was constructed. Leaving aside the inevitable
sort of tedium of what I have just said, I think actually at the
level of human rights it is probably the right way to do it, so,
I am afraid, I cannot tell you when there is going to be a conclusion
on that case and also, despite the slightly sardonic things I
have just said, I feel very comfortable that Ofcom has a very
good process around all of that and handles it with a sort of
due deliberation.
Q58 Mr Evans: He is likely to be
back on the air then before any announcement is made?
Dr Bowe: That is a matter for
the BBC.
Q59 Mr Evans: Well, we know when
he is coming back on the air, so it is actually a matter for Ofcom
whether they get it out before then or not. On a technicality,
with a fine, because you can impose a fine—
Dr Bowe: Yes.
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