Examination of Witness (Question Numbers
100-119)
DR COLETTE
BOWE
13 JANUARY 2009
Q100 Mr Whittingdale: Similar pressures
on radio are also affecting the newspaper industry and we are
seeing newspapers go out of business almost every day now. Ofcom
does have a role in this, particularly if part of the solution
is to relax the competition rules governing regional newspapers.
Is that something that you are looking at?
Dr Bowe: It is indeed. Our role,
as you acknowledge Chairman, is a limited one, but in the context
of all that we are doing, and following Mike's point, to look
at markets for the delivery of local news in particular, it would
be extremely foolish of us to ignore the situation of regional
newspapers so, acknowledging that our powers are limited in this
area, you can take it that this is an area that Ofcom is looking
at from the standpoint of what it might be able to do to be helpful
to that extremely important part of our communications industry.
That is very much where we are coming from on that.
Q101 Mr Whittingdale: In both radio
and newspapers if you do seek to be helpful you may require a
change in the law to do so. Would you be looking to put the case
to the Government for a new Communications Bill?
Dr Bowe: I think at this stage
of my tenure it would be rather presumptuous of me to walk in
and say that we are looking for a new Communications Bill, but
it is undoubtedly the case that there are a number of issues where,
partly because of the way the industry has developed but to be
honest partly because of things that I do not think were quite
right the first time around, where you might want some change
to the legislation, but I am not walking through the door of Ofcom
saying, "Right, the next priority is a new piece of legislation,
please." I think we have got to be quite careful. We have
got to have that dialogue with you about what are the issues,
is legislation the right way to address them, or can we manage
it. There are one or two points. One that I would just like to
get on the table because I have not had a chance to this morning,
is there is an aspect of the penalties that Ofcom can levy which
is quite deficient, in my view. The penalties Ofcom can levy for
the abuse known as silent calling are limited to £50,000.
I do not think that is enough. If I could put that on the table
as well, I would very much like to. That is a serious abuse which
causes untold concern to older people who are very, very disturbed
by silent calls, and it is an unacceptable face of the industry
and we need stronger powers to tackle it, please.
Q102 Mr Whittingdale: It is pretty
annoying to not so old people as well.
Dr Bowe: The thing for older people
is that it is frightening. It is not just annoying; to pick up
the phone and there is nobody there is frightening.
Q103 Mr Hoyle: You just mentioned
regional newspapers and this is an absolutely critical area where
people have a real alternative. Why we are worried is it is not
just the dailies, it is the weeklies that we see going, and it
seems to me (and I do not know who the competition is) that previously
you would have had a free sheet and a paid weekly and in some
areas one will go and in another area it is the other newspaper
that will go. There seems to be a trade-off of titles between
each of the two groups and what I am concerned about is that there
is no real competition left in towns where in the end one newspaper
will be left with all the business and they will decide what they
want to put in. I just wonder what you can do to try and ensure
that there will be some competition not only in dailies but in
the weekly titles that we seem to be losing. We come back to the
problem about radio. If they all keep merging and keep merging
so it becomes one radio station with one set of news and after
a certain time there is no local news, there is just the national
news, I think there is a great danger that we are failing in this
and we are going to see newspapers going the same way.
Dr Bowe: If I could just say,
Lindsay, that our powers in respect of newspapers are very limited.
Q104 Mr Hoyle: It comes back to the
Chairman's point that you need more power.
Dr Bowe: What I want to indicate
here is simply that I do not think you can think about local journalism
(because we are talking about local news here basically) and you
cannot talk about radio in a separate box from local newspapers
because people want all of them.
Q105 Mr Hoyle: Absolutely.
Dr Bowe: Our remit is primarily
about the broadcasting side but I think it would be foolish of
us to try and think about that in a sort of silo where we are
not thinking about local papers as well.
Q106 Peter Luff: Can I just change
the subject briefly and take you back to something you began with,
the digital dividend and spectrum allocation. In the early days,
I was concerned particularly about the future of radio microphone
technology that because of the combination of an extraordinary
technological optimism at Ofcom about what could happen to make
new things possible and an economic determinism that only the
market will decide that radio microphone technology was under
serious threat in the UK, which would have meant an end to outside
news broadcasts, an end to referees having wireless microphones
at football matches, an end to music tours, an end to theatre;
it was a devastating situation. To Ofcom's great credit and to
Ed Richard's great credit, they did take the concerns that I expressed
very seriously and there is a very constructive dialogue going
on, including with the mobile telephone sector where the competition
is actually with them for spectrum allocation. Can I urge you
in your work on the digital dividend and spectrum allocation to
look particularly carefully at this issue because it is crunch
time now for this issue?
Dr Bowe: Will do, yes.
Peter Luff: Thank you.
Mr Whittingdale: Adrian Sanders?
Q107 Mr Sanders: Long questions get
short answers; I like that! In terms of what you said at the beginning
when you mentioned digital switchover, which is becoming a live
issue for many, many people, there is an issue here of access
to the range of services for people who receive their signal from
a relay transmitter. What is your view and should Ofcom not have
a view on this in trying to ensure that everybody receives the
same range of services?
Dr Bowe: That is quite a tricky
one because, as you know of course, terrain becomes very important
in this. What I meant by indicating right at the beginning my
interest in the digital switchover was I have been concerned right
since the outset of digital switchover not, to be honest, about
the kind of engineering issue that you are raising, but about
the ability of vulnerable people to cope with the consequences
of this switchover. What I mean by vulnerable people is people
who are older and maybe living on their own who have not got anyone
to help them and people who might have, for example, learning
difficulties and who might find this difficult to cope with. There
is a help scheme. Early indications from the first switchover
areas are that this has gone reasonably well, but this year we
are moving into a year when Wales and the West Country and the
North West of England and the rest of the Borders are going to
be completed. This is going to pose a significant challenge, and
what I meant by indicating my earlier interest in digital switchover
was that I will want Ofcom, along with Digital UK, to be keeping
an extremely close eye on the working through of that. It is a
very, very difficult-to-implement project and there are a lot
of people who may well be disadvantaged by it if we are not extremely
careful.
Q108 Mr Sanders: But there is some
superb work being done by Age Concern and other voluntary organisations
who have been roped into this, and my area is due to switch over
very shortly, but the only complaints that I receive are from
those areas that are not going to get the full range of services
once analogue is switched off. It is almost like there is a two-class
switchover. If you get your signal from the main transmitter you
are in division one but if you get it from a relay station you
are going to get a secondary service. That is wrong given that
people pay the same level of licence fee irrespective of which
transmitter they receive their pictures from.
Dr Bowe: I completely take your
point. Can I ask you just to take it from me that all the aspects
of digital switchover will be high on my agenda this year and
you are speaking to a highly receptive person on that.
Mr Sanders: One final thing, to get back
to the sporting question, there has been a lot of concentration
on football but a lot of people would love to have Test cricket
back on terrestrial TV.
Mr Whittingdale: That is entirely outside
the remit of Ofcom!
Q109 Mr Sanders: I would like a personal
view given that we have talked a lot about football teams.
Dr Bowe: Cricket is now on the
record, okay; I am sure others will be listening to this.
Q110 Mr Weir: It is interesting that
at the outset you mentioned broadband as being one of your main
concerns. As a matter of public policy objective, do you think
the UK should concentrate on increasing speeds to areas that already
have access to broadband, given that there has been much in the
news lately about the speeds being promised not being delivered,
or on using alternative technology to extend basic coverage and
reducing the number of so-called "not spots", and I
have many of them in my constituency?
Dr Bowe: I bet. Mike, if you want
my personal view on this, we have not got a universal service
obligation for broadband in the United Kingdom; I believe we should
have.
Q111 Mr Weir: Do you have any powers
at the moment? To be fair to the Government they pushed broadband
and they got it into all the exchanges, the problem is from the
exchanges to the houses, and many in my area are still on copper
cable and speeds are non-existent, it is little better than dial-up.
Do you have any powers to do anything about that present situation?
Dr Bowe: No. I hope you saw the
research that we did last week which illustrated extremely well
how the last bit that it travels from the exchange to you can
be where the difference between the headline speed that you signed
up for and what you actually get can actually go wrong. We do
not have powers to mandate on that, but I come back to saying
that I think that we should be taking forward a universal service
obligation for broadband. It is an absolute essential part of
being connected. Everybody needs it and we should now set about
getting it.
Q112 Mr Weir: Do you think that a
universal service should be on the fibre optics or do you think
that there should be a mixture?
Dr Bowe: Frankly, I have not got
a view about the technology. What I want is the stuff in people's
houses and in their businesses. There are a lot people I know
who are trying to run small businesses in rural communities who
are having a heck of a job.
Q113 Mr Weir: I will introduce you
to some more if you want.
Dr Bowe: Bring them on because
this is what we need to hear.
Q114 Mr Whittingdale: Can I finally
just ask you a question about what they do with it when it arrives
in their homes. When Ofcom was set up I remember that we had considerable
debates about the fact that the internet was outside the scope
of Ofcom's regulation. We have since then had the Audiovisual
Media Services Directive which has begun to extend the regulatory
framework on the internet, but the Secretary of State has recently
made some comments where he seems to envisage a much more intrusive
regulatory regime, even the possibility of age ratings on websites.
Is that something that you think Ofcom may well find itself being
asked to do?
Dr Bowe: It is something that
we need to have a good dialogue with the Secretary of State about.
I can see exactly where he is coming from on that. It is kind
of what a lot of people want. As a parent it is very much what
one wants actually.
Q115 Mr Whittingdale: They may want
it but can it actually be done?
Dr Bowe: We have got to have a
dialogue about the practicality of that but I think where he is
coming from is a very good place.
Mr Whittingdale: In which case I do not
think the Committee has any more questions. Oh, sorry, Peter.
Peter Luff: I think we ought to ask the
last question. If you were to make yourself available for reappointment
at the end of your term, what criteria should we use to assess
your individual record as Chairman of Ofcom?
Q116 Mr Hoyle: A reduced salary!
Dr Bowe: Peter, I think you have
just heard the answer!
Q117 Peter Luff: You will want to
make a difference as an organisation.
Dr Bowe: Yes. If this were to
happen, ask me: "Okay, what have you achieved for citizens
and consumers compared to where people were in January 2009?"
Hold me to account for that. Could I say one final thing, Chairman?
Q118 Mr Whittingdale: Of course.
Dr Bowe: It is an issue that has
come up throughout this morning's hearing but I would like to
just reiterate it. I believe that the ability of the public to
trust the communications media, and particularly the broadcasters,
is an absolute pillar of a free, democratic society like ours,
and, going back to Peter Luff's question just now, what I would
like you to ask me about if I were to come in front of you in
five years' time is what have I done to promote and defend public
trust in the media. Thank you.
Q119 Mr Whittingdale: Thank you.
The Committee is now going to continue in private briefly to discuss
the evidence that we have received, but can I first of all thank
Dr Bowe very much for giving up her time and, without wishing
to pre-empt the conclusions of my colleagues, can I wish you every
success in your new role.
Dr Bowe: Thank you very much,
John. I have very much enjoyed this morning and look forward to
talking to you again in many different ways in the years to come.
Thank you.
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