Examination of Witnesses (Questions 260-279)
GENERAL SIR
KEVIN O'DONOGHUE
KCB CBE, DR ANDREW
TYLER AND
REAR ADMIRAL
PAUL LAMBERT
CB
25 NOVEMBER 2008
Q260 Mr Borrow: That is 2011 as opposed
to 2009.
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Indeed.
Q261 Mr Borrow: In terms of the problems
you have currently got, are you expecting that to have any further
impact on your projected in-service date?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Yes, yes.
Q262 Mr Borrow: Are you able to give
any guidance to the Committee?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No, none whatsoever and I am waiting for the company to tell us
what the new delivery schedule will be. Of course, here we are
not on our own; there are seven nations involved in this. I am
in almost weekly discussion with my national armament director
colleagues from the other nations to see what it is exactly we
are going to do about this. All of us need the capability but
we cannot wait forever. So what is it that we, together with the
company, are going to do to deliver the capability that we require,
is the debate that we are having.
Q263 Mr Borrow: There is a phrase
in your MoD memorandum which says: "We will remain adaptive
to emerging information on the A400M programme" (which is
what you have just explained).
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Yes.
Q264 Mr Borrow: Does that mean that
you will be considering, as you have touched on earlier, leasing
or procuring off-the-shelf vehicles from elsewhere, were these
further delays in the A400M programme to be more than just a few
months? Is that part of the mix of measures that you are looking
at?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
We are already considering what we will do when we know what the
schedule is going to be. So, yes, we have to get our plans together
to see what we will do if, as you say, the A400M slides off further
to the right.
Q265 Mr Borrow: What is the sort
of timescale you are working on in terms of having to make a decision
to do something rather than wait for the A400M to come on stream?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
We are running through the options at the moment and we will need
to make decisions. As I say, what I am waiting for is a schedule
of delivery from the company, which is what we do not know yet.
I think I said right at the beginning that I think they have said
a nine-month delay. I think that is what is declared at the moment.
When we know what the delay is then we will need to know what
sort of options we need to look at.
Q266 Mr Borrow: The key date for
the MoD is getting that schedule from the company.
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Just so.
Q267 Mr Borrow: At that point you
can make a decision in terms of what option or mix of options
you need to consider.
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Just that.
Q268 Mr Borrow: Have you got any
hint from the company yet as to the date when they will be able
to give you that schedule?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No, and I genuinely do not have a date, but I will be disappointed
if it were more than a few months. Very disappointed.
Q269 Chairman: Would you be surprised?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
I think I might be surprised because there are a number of milestones
(which I am not prepared to go into for commercial reasons) coming
up, which I think will encourage the company to reach a view on
the delivery schedule sooner rather than later.
Q270 Mr Jenkin: What are these hitches?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Hitches in the aircraft?
Q271 Mr Jenkin: Yes.
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
There are some challenges on the engine.
Q272 Mr Jenkin: Has it actually flown
with the specified engine yet?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No.
Q273 Mr Jenkin: What is your confidence
level that you will meet these deadlines?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
The test engine is on a C-130 test bed at Marshalls. I was there
last week looking at it. I have got every confidence that will
fly soon, so the flight test process—
Q274 Mr Jenkin: What is happening
to the unit cost of A400M?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No change. This is not about risk. Let me clarify, there could
be a cost of capital issue.
Q275 Mr Jenkin: Explain, please.
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Well, the more we have capital tied up without having received
the asset, the more it costs us, over a length of time. So there
could be a cost of capital issue, but it is not at our cost that
the company are putting things right.
Chairman: Joint Strike Fighter. Robert
Key.
Q276 Robert Key: General, give us
all a Christmas present. Since we asked you last time, in January,
are you any clearer about the unit cost of a Joint Strike Fighter?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No, I do not think I am, am I?
Dr Tyler: We have got transparent
visibility of the costing models that are being used in the United
States, and in the programme office there, on the unit price of
JSF. The information is confidential because we have not yet signed
any production contracts with the company, but what we do get
visibility of is the way that that cost is tracking with time.
At the moment, it is reasonably stable and the Admiral and myself
were over in the United States last week at the JSF Executive
Steering Board, where we were able to see that first-hand.
Q277 Robert Key: Chairman, I think
that might be an early Christmas present, because back in January,
General, you said it would be foolish to suggest a number without
knowing the price. You clearly do have some idea of the price
now. In that case, can you now tell us how many JSFs the UK is
planning to buy?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
At the moment, and this is still a decision-making process going
on, we are looking at buying three, which are the Operational
Test and Evaluation aircraft.
Q278 Robert Key: Beyond that?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
Why do we not wait and see what the Operational Test and Evaluation
comes out with?
Q279 Robert Key: There is a novel
way of planning procurement, I suppose. That will be, obviously,
the next Christmas present. Back on 12 December 2006 Lord Drayson
announced that he had received the necessary assurances from the
United States on technology transfer on the JSF programme. The
Ministry of Defence memorandum for this inquiry states (and I
quote): "The UK continues to work closely with the US to
secure the commitments it requires with regards to operational
sovereignty." Is technology transfer still an issue on this
programme?
General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue:
No, I do not believe it is. You can define "operational sovereignty"
any way you want, but if you define it as the ability to use the
platform and its weapons system and its ISTAR systems in the way
we, the UK, wish to at the time and place of our choosing (that
is the definition that makes some sense), then I am quite clear
that the technology we need to be able to do that is being transferred
to the timescale that was originally agreed. I am happy that that
is happening. We need to continue to monitor it, we need to continue
to watch it to make sure that that programme is adhered to, but,
no, I am satisfied.
Rear Admiral Lambert: It will
be tested through the Operational Test and Evaluation programme.
We are on the timeline that we expected to be on at the moment,
but the real test of it will be during the OT&E phase.
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