Examination of Witnesses (Questions 93-99)
REAR ADMIRAL
SIMON CHARLIER,
REAR ADMIRAL
TONY JOHNSTONE-BURT
OBE AND BRIGADIER
KEVIN ABRAHAM
2 JUNE 2009
Q93 Chairman: This is the second formal
session of evidence in our inquiry into helicopters. Welcome to
all the witnesses. Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt, perhaps you would
begin by introducing everybody and telling us what all of you
do and how everything fits in.
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt:
I am Tony Johnstone-Burt, Commander of the Joint Helicopter Command
which is 15,000 strong. I am responsible for all the battlefield
helicopters in the Army, Navy and Air Force and all the air assault
assets, specifically in 16 Air Assault Brigade. On my left is
Admiral Simon Charlier who works in Navy Command and is responsible
for all fixed wing and rotary wing maritime-based aircraft, or
what we call the grey fleet. On my right is Brigadier Kevin Abraham
who is responsible for all commitments and capability from the
policy perspective based in the Ministry of Defence across the
whole of defence with a specific interest in helicopters in the
round. If I may, I should like to make three brief points to put
the whole thing into context.
Q94 Chairman: Please do so. It would
be helpful if you told us what helicopters do.
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: I
have just returned from Afghanistan and the helicopters out there
are doing a great job. In particular, the people are in fantastic
form and are doing an amazing thing in extreme temperatures and
in the face of a very determined enemy, but also battlefield helicopter
capability continues to increase whether it is aircraft, hours
or the way in which in theatre at the moment we task them which
is becoming smarter so we achieve greater effect. It is obvious
from what we are doing in theatre at the moment that the defence
industry contribution has been particularly good. As you have
been briefed, we have a Boeing Vector team out there which is
making a tangible difference. Our relationship with the defence
industry is getting better daily. The aircraft we have there are
the Apache, the Chinook and two types of Sea King, Mks 4 and 7.
All of the aircraft are inextricably linked with the Regional
Command South commanded by Major General De Kruif, so they are
assets for the whole region and clearly also contribute specifically
to Task Force Helmand. You will be aware that the Apache is a
close combat attack aircraft and is also doing ISTAR: Intelligence,
Surveillance, Targeting, Acquisition and Reconnaissance. The roles
they perform are becoming more and more overlapped as we deal
with the complexity of the battlefield situation. You will be
aware that the Chinooks are heavy lift and also provide the immediate
response team for medical evacuation. The Sea King Mk4 is medium
lift and also carries out a degree of reconnaissance and surveillance.
The Sea King Mk7, or SKASAC as it is called—the Sea King
Airborne Surveillance and Control—flew in theatre yesterday
and today. That aircraft is out there specifically for reconnaissance
and intelligence-gathering missions.
Q95 Chairman: How do the helicopters
fit into the larger picture of what it is we are doing in Afghanistan?
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: They
are making a fundamental, battle-winning contribution. They are
tasked by a full Colonel called Commander Joint Aviation Group
and create whatever effect the Commander of Regional Command South
wants, so in all the roles I have just described they deliver
that capability to the troops in theatre 24 hours a day seven
days a week.
Q96 Chairman: Are you able to say
to what extent we rely on our allies' helicopters to support our
troops and our allies rely on ours to support their troops?
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: We
are mutually dependent. We contribute to our allies as much as
we contribute to ourselves. Task Force Helmand probably gets the
lion's share of the British helicopter capability. About 85% of
our aviation resource goes to Task Force Helmand, although I stress
that the capability itself is held centrally by the Regional Commander
just so we can make sure that this is a team effort across the
whole of NATO and we can send in assets depending on what we want
to do. For example, the Reserve Battle Group South is based in
Kandahar, as the fire brigade for the Regional Commander, and
that brigade whizzes around the whole of Regional Command South
depending on what hot spots the Commander wants to deal with.
We support that as much as we support anything else. It is very
much a team effort.
Q97 Mr Holloway: Can you give us
some idea of what sort of activity the helicopters conduct in
support of the so-called Comprehensive Approach?
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: I
can in the widest possible sense without going into classified
material. The Comprehensive Approach is a loose term which tries
to embrace every aspect of warfare from humanitarian support operations
right through to full-scale war-righting, stabilisation operations,
counter insurgency and counter-narcotics. In terms of having a
Comprehensive Approach our helicopters do all that. To reflect
that, I give the example of the use of the Chinook, which goes
back to my earlier point in reply to the Chairman about the way
the roles are blurred as we become more sophisticated in dealing
with such things as the hybrid warrior I have described, in the
sense that one moment the Chinook can be used as the immediate
response team in terms of delivering the medical emergency evacuation
of troops with a consultant physician on board.
Q98 Mr Holloway: What percentage
of helicopter usage is in support of the political and developmental
side of the Comprehensive Approach? You say that 85% of the helicopters
are used by Task Force Helmand. What percentage is involved in
development and political stuff?
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: It
is very small.
Q99 Mr Holloway: One per cent?
Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt: I
would say 15 to 20%; it is pretty small. It is a rather vague
term because it depends on what you mean by that. When you say
"political", for example our helicopters spend some
time transporting Governor Mangal around with his team.
Mr Holloway: It cannot be as much as
20%, can it?
Chairman: It is very difficult to link
the Comprehensive Approach to one particular platform.
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