Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120
- 139)
MONDAY 23 MARCH 2009
MS CARLY
ROWLEY, MR
TOM DUTTON,
MR ADAM
HODGSON, MR
JOEL MARTIN,
MR GEMMA
JEROME AND
MR EDWARD
NUSSEY
Q120 Graham Stringer: If you are
stuck with something that you completely do not understand, can
you nip in and see your tutor or lecturer? Are they available
at short notice?
Mr Nussey: Well, I have had that
experience quite a lot in this third year, so I might go to my
supervisor in labs, but he is part-time so sometimes he is not
available and my tutor may not be available, but now I am in my
third year I know quite a lot of the lecturers and I feel I could
walk into any of their offices and talk to them. A lot of them
are more than willing to go through in depth any problems that
I have.
Q121 Graham Stringer: Gemma?
Ms Jerome: Again timetabled lectures,
about eight to 10 hours a week, and that stays fairly consistent
throughout the four years of my particular degree. On top of that
we are expected—I think it is in the prospectus—to
do about 20 to 30 hours of personal study.
Q122 Graham Stringer: Do you or did
you, rather?
Ms Jerome: No I did not, but then
again that is down to individual study style. I find that I do
things rather well last minute. It should be noted that in civic
design there is a lot of group work, so you have to schedule that
in and you have to timetable that for yourself. You are expected
to spend at least 10 to 20 hours in your group outside of study
time. Then we have a PDP system at the University of Liverpool,
so you are expected to meet with your personal development tutor
at least once a semester. To add in the context of higher tuition
fees, that has definitely impacted on students' perceptions.
Graham Stringer: Can I come on to tuition
fees later.
Chairman: We will come back to that.
Q123 Graham Stringer: You have been
very honest and admitted that you did not do the 20-odd hours
a week and I guess you are not on your own. What are the consequences
if you do not go to lectures?
Ms Jerome: Depending on your subjects
and your department you can receive emails of concern and then
there is an academic appraisal system where you have to then go
to a board and explain your lack of attendance. Otherwise there
is a record of attendance at each lecture, and you have to sign
in, unless you get your friend to do it.
Q124 Graham Stringer: If you miss
two or three weeks are you under threat of removal from the course?
Ms Jerome: No, there is a definite
structure of assessment, so you go through some kind of system
to check why it is that you are not attending, so there is more
of a support system there rather than just penalising.
Q125 Graham Stringer: Joel?
Mr Martin: Yes, we have eight
hours a week, at least I do, of scheduled lectures, contact time.
Also there is the honours project which is the same credits as
the modules that I do. I tend to treat university as a nine-to-five
job, although that does not mean I will be working nine until
five every day. Some days I will only be doing pure revision for
maybe one or two hours, but it is the fact that I am always engaged
in the process of working throughout the nine until five timeslot
that I allocate myself.
Q126 Graham Stringer: What are the
consequences for you if you do not attend lectures?
Mr Martin: To my knowledge people
who do not attend lectures do not tend to get confronted. I am
not sure. I have noticed that some people just vanish from our
lectures and do not seem to show up.
Q127 Graham Stringer: And they are
not expelled from university?
Mr Martin: I have never heard
of a single instance where that has happened, no.
Q128 Graham Stringer: Adam?
Mr Hodgson: Technically I have
15 hours contact time per week, that is three hours per module
and five modules per semester. In final year that varies because
there are projects. It depends on the lecturer as well. Some lecturers
have slightly less time and some lecturers will always do three
hours a week. I do not always go to my lectures. I do a lot of
other stuff in between university. I am very involved in the Student
Union, for example.
Q129 Graham Stringer: What happens
when you do not go to your lectures?
Mr Hodgson: Nothing. I am again
missing my Monday afternoon lecture to be here and this will be
my third week in a row that I have not been there.
Chairman: We are guilty!
Q130 Graham Stringer: We are a relatively
good excuse!
Mr Hodgson: To be honest, every
time I miss a lecture I always feel that I have a good excuse
for not being there! The amount of work I do outside lectures
is normally limited to course work. Because it is maths there
is not always a need for independent study. We are not set anything
like homework to do in between lectures. I personally have no
other contact time for anything else apart from lectures.
Q131 Graham Stringer: Tom?
Mr Dutton: Again eight hours a
week, that is two hours per module, four modules. Obviously my
course is split into two with two modules of English and two of
philosophy. Outside of that philosophy is all the time really,
is it not, you are learning!
Q132 Chairman: That was the right
answer as well, Tom.
Mr Dutton: When am I not doing
philosophy? As long as my brain is ticking over, there is something
happening in there. The English course I am doing at the minute
is quite varied. One of my modules is the history of the English
language which is obviously a lot of history. I have always been
into history since I was young anyway. There are a lot of books
and a book called the Adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg,
which was a book I started reading over last summer, and that
was before I knew what the module was, so it is stuff like that,
I suppose you could count. My other module is called, let me think,
sorry, I am not good on the spot—
Q133 Graham Stringer: If you do not
attend lectures or if people on your course do not attend lectures,
are there any consequences?
Mr Dutton: You probably get an
email asking why. I have had two lectures I have missed today
but I have emailed to say I am doing this.
Q134 Graham Stringer: But if you
miss for two or three weeks?
Mr Dutton: If the miss two lectures
the faculty will be on you.
Q135 Graham Stringer: And if you
continue to miss are you under threat of expulsion or withdrawal
from the course?
Mr Dutton: I would not know.
Ms Rowley: I have about eight
hours contact per week. I also do a dissertation so I do not have
contact time for that per se, I have to have individual tutorials
with my supervisor, which are usually a few weeks between each
one. It also does not take into account that I do performance
and have to practise my instrument each day because it is the
practice that goes behind the scenes, if you like, that goes towards
the recital at the end of the year. Approachability of tutors,
I find that I can go and talk to any of mine and they will give
me the time. I think that is because I have gone and asked for
it. I think it is one of those situations where you have to make
it for yourself. If you want some extra support then you have
to go and find it and then they will respect you for doing that.
In terms of absence and things, I have been told, and I am not
sure what they call it, of something like a card system or a points
card system, and if you miss perhaps two lectures and you are
not explaining why you have missed them, then you are given a
yellow card. Then if you continue to miss it goes to a red card.
Then you will have to present yourself as to why it is that you
have been missing things. And if you cannot adequately explain
then it could be that you are kicked off. Also it is taking into
account now not just your attendance but your participation, which
I think is really important for something like literature, because
you have to read the books in order to take part in the seminars
and the lectures and so forth, and if you are not reading and
not participating in the seminars then it just makes for less
productive learning, I suppose, so they are taking that into account
as well.
Q136 Graham Stringer: Gemma mentioned
fees before and I would like you all to answer as quickly as you
can the question about whether top-up fees have influenced you
at all in choosing to go into higher education and whether they
would influence you differently if the top-up fees rather than
being just over £3,000 were £6,000? Do you want to start
Carly?
Ms Rowley: I am actually from
the old system. I did a gap year at the time when it was just
going to top-up fees, so I actually pay the old fees. I cannot
really speak for the top-up fees' effect on me but my brother,
for instance, is 18 and he is looking at going into university
now, and if it were a case of paying £6,000 a year I am not
sure that he would be able to contemplate the amount of debt that
he would have to battle with at the end of it. I think university
is just so important for all young individuals. It has made me
a different person and I do not think it is fair if we have to
put it up to such an amount that people cannot take part.
Mr Dutton: It actually works out
the same for me as it would under the old system. When I left
home my mum cut down her hours of work, in all her wisdom, so
I got the maximum grant. If it was a lot more I cannot really
see how it is going to benefit anyone because if you double the
price it is not that unrealistic to suggest you might get half
as many people coming in.
Mr Hodgson: Again I am on the
old fees system. One thing I want to say is that obviously the
people in the year below me are paying twice the amount and yet
there is absolutely no visible difference as to the kind of university
experience they are getting. They get the same amount of lectures,
they get the same lecturers, they get the same amount of support,
so I would be hesitant to support in any way increasing those
fees because I do not see how that would benefit any student at
all. I have not seen the benefit between the £1,200 fees
to the £3,000 fees.
Mr Martin: Even when the fees
were raised by £75 two years ago it came as quite a shock
to me. The fact that now there is talk of maybe charging £6,000,
I know if that were the case when I was deciding on going to university,
it really would have influenced me. From my point, I was always
going to go to university, that was always the way it was going
to pan out, provided I got the grades to get in, but money would
have been an issue if it was that expensive.
Ms Jerome: What I was going to
mention briefly before is that there is a complexity of issues
surrounding fees, and I think that there is a connection between
students' engagement in education and the money they are putting
into it. If you work out that you are paying £25 a lecture
maybe you are less likely to miss one. The fact that we do as
students—maybe it is our parents, maybe it is through a
bursary or maybe it is through a grant—pay for our education
means that there is a problem of seeing ourselves as consumers.
I know that that can go either way, negative or positive, and
usually somewhere in the middle. If you see yourself more as a
consumer, are you less likely to play a part in the decision-making
process or do you see it as the duty of your institution to make
decisions on your behalf because you are paying for them to do
that?
Q137 Chairman: Do you think that
you are a consumer?
Ms Jerome: Personally I do not
perceive education in that light but I know plenty of people who
do. It is primarily connected to the fact that they are paying
for their education. If it is a question of the fact that higher
education needs its standards to rise, if it is an issue that
money is going to directly affect the quality of the education
that we are receiving then obviously that is unquestionable and
that is important, but I think the question is who should pay
for that, and if it is through fees then it is obviously—
Q138 Chairman: The point that Adam
made, and I think it is a very good point that he has made, is
that the rise from £1,000 to £3,000 has not had a commensurate
increase in the quality for the consumer or the client or the
student, if you want to call them that. Do you honestly believe
that by moving the fees to 6,000 there would be a doubling in
the quality or an improvement in the quality? Do you think that
is realistic?
Ms Jerome: I do not think it is
necessarily where that money is going to go.
Q139 Chairman: It must go somewhere,
must it not?
Ms Jerome: It must, yes, but then
again money comes from our RAE results and if an institution like
Liverpool is considering departmental closures based on RAE results,
and yet they are still getting more money for their results, it
just suggests to me that there is a wider agenda of what institutions
want to offer, and it is not necessarily about the quality of
the whole spectrum of courses.
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