Examination of Witnesses (Questions 90-99)
MR MARTIN
DOEL, MR
GRAHAM MOORE
AND DR
JOHN BLAKE
20 MAY 2009
Q90 Chairman: Could I very very strongly
welcome our first panel of witnesses this morning: Martin Doel,
the Chief Executive of the Association of Colleges; and Graham
Moore, the Principal of Stoke College and Chair of the 157 Group.
Could I say, Graham, this session was as a result of the 157 Group
actually putting in a request to the Committee for one of our
topical sessions.
Mr Moore: I am ever so glad you
mentioned that, Chairman!
Mr Marsden: Be careful what you wish
for!
Mr Boswell: So far so good.
Q91 Chairman: And finally, we welcome
Dr John Blake, the Principal of Sussex Downs College. We are very
tight on time and I am finishing spot on two minutes before ten
so if you could be as brief with your answers as possible. I wonder
if I could start with you, Martin. When were you told about the
problems with the LSC capital programme and who told you?
Mr Doel: The first occasion when
I was spoken to about the problems with the capital programme
was in December when I received informal notice of the Council
decision to suspend the programme.
Q92 Chairman: But we are told that
colleges were already informing the AoC, and indeed the 157 Group,
as early as October 2008 of problems with the capital programme,
so why did you not act on that?
Mr Doel: As represented in October
and into the autumn it was about cash flow in terms of availability
of funds to pay bills due around capital builds. When we enquired
at that time we were advised that this was simply a cash flow
issue, there was no question of bills not having been paid.
Q93 Chairman: So you did in fact
respond to those comments coming from some of your members?
Mr Doel: We followed up through
my Director of Funding and Development, Julian Gravatt, to ask
a question about why these bills had not been paid on time.
Q94 Chairman: With the LSC as well
as the DIUS?
Mr Doel: No, the LSC only.
Q95 Chairman: What about you, Graham?
Mr Moore: I think there were two
stages. Officially we did not know anything until December when
the process ground to a halt and there were a lot of rumours and
discussions. My colleague down the road at the sixth form college
was one of the colleges involved in that process and they were
simply told that decisions were being postponed. I think it is
fair to say that in the sector before that period there was a
general feeling of unease growing because we are all intelligent
people, so are the local LSC offices, and so on, and we could
see that the volume was building up. I am one of the colleges
in that group of 70-odd colleges between approval in principle
and approval in detail, and at a meeting in September 2008 we
received approval in principle for £96 million and Bradford
College, who were also there on the same day, received approval
in principle for over £100 million. It does not take a genius
to work out that those sorts of figures cannot go on for very
long given the finite size of the budget.
Q96 Mr Boswell: Did that not occur
to the other side as well?
Mr Moore: You would have to ask
the others how they perceived it but it did seem to me that pressure
was certainly building up. I think it was perfectly understandable
why it had. The early bidders had got quite a lot of reserves
and therefore could put a lot into the pot. The more difficult
cases, and perhaps one would say the more needy cases, were then
coming on stream, places like Bradford, in difficult urban areas
without the same sort of reserves, and they were making big demands
on the LSC funding pot. However, I would have to say the capital
cases were very strong.
Q97 Chairman: John, do you want a
quick word here?
Dr Blake: Just as a specific example,
the history of last year is interesting for us. In July last year
we had a meeting where a £175 million project was basically
approved to go through in terms of AiP. In September we were told
that maybe it needed to be phased so we began to be a little bit
concerned about what that meant. In December you hear rumours
that things have happened at National Committee, but it is not
in fact until I get back to the college on the first day in January
that I get an email telling me that things are on hold. We had
obviously taken some prudent decisions internally within the college
in order to take account of where we thought things were moving.
Q98 Chairman: You are saying in July
there were rumours?
Dr Blake: In July there is a huge
tick for a big project, in September there is talk of phasing
instead of one large project, but it is not until January that
I get a statement saying do not spend any more money, put it on
hold.
Q99 Chairman: In terms of the September
who was giving you the evil eye at that point?
Dr Blake: That is the LSC process.
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